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The linguistic exegesis of Phil 2.

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  • The linguistic exegesis of Phil 2.

    The Tuggy vs. Date debate, held at the end of May this year has Date interpreting this passage in Phil 2:

    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    The reason why Date spends so much time in his debate over this passage:

    1) It refutes Tuggy's contention that the dogma of "incarnation" was developed over time, even decades.
    2) It shows how PAUL allegedly considered Jesus as incarnated. (Only other place might be 1 Tim 3:16).
    3) It shows an independent "collaboration" for incarnation, which only has a few (my opinion) places in Text it might be.

    Date gave linguistic examples of his own view, from Wallace and a few other ones. I have a hard time to understand, even what Date is getting at.

    The aorist verbs of continuation in verse 7 makes any difference? Harpagmas is idiom? Two IDIOMS I see are "the form of God" which no Jew claims to have actually seen, and "equality with God," which I view as a derogatory idiom, taken from Genesis 3 with Adam. These two apparent idiomatic uses makes me believe the passage hard to understand, contra Date who says his interpretation is "clear."

    Can someone explain to me what Date is trying to convey AGAINST Tuggy's interpretation, which seems in turn to me most likely? The linguistic side, which I have less knowledge in please.

    This would be at the 46 minute mark, of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c35_uFjEbx8
    Shema will change the Christian World.

    Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

    Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

  • #2
    Originally posted by nothead View Post
    Can someone explain to me what...]
    Why? It's not gonna change your view no matter how scriptural, reasonable or rational it is. so why ask for an explanation? Why would any one respond to what will prove to be a fruitless endeavor?
    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Josheb View Post
      Why? It's not gonna change your view no matter how scriptural, reasonable or rational it is. so why ask for an explanation? Why would any one respond to what will prove to be a fruitless endeavor?
      In order to convince readers sir? Of your hairy dispositions sir? YOUR job, if you take on Matt Slick's IDEAL STATUS QUO, is to defend YOUR FAITH, geddit sir?

      Besides, how can I refute better scholarship concerning LINGUISTIC points made, when I am not even close to a Koine expert sir?
      Have you had your Wheaties today sir? Put on your THINKING cap, and then have your people get with mine sir.
      Last edited by nothead; 08-08-19, 11:18 AM.
      Shema will change the Christian World.

      Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

      Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by nothead View Post
        In order to convince readers sir? Of your hairy dispositions sir? YOUR job, if you take on Matt Slick's IDEAL STATUS QUO, is to defend YOUR FAITH, geddit sir?

        Besides, how can I refute better scholarship concerning LINGUISTIC points made, when I am not even close to a Koine expert sir?
        Have you had your Wheaties today sir? Put on your THINKING cap, and then have your people get with mine sir.
        That is not an answer to the question asked and if the mockery continues I'll report the op.



        Why should someone explain the source to you? It's not gonna change your view no matter how scriptural, reasonable or rational it is. so why ask for an explanation? Why would any one respond to what will prove to be a fruitless endeavor?
        All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

        “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Josheb View Post
          That is not an answer to the question asked and if the mockery continues I'll report the op.



          Why should someone explain the source to you? It's not gonna change your view no matter how scriptural, reasonable or rational it is. so why ask for an explanation? Why would any one respond to what will prove to be a fruitless endeavor?
          Why ask why? I am not the ONLY kid on this block. There just so happens to be readers and groupies and fans and enemies too. My FANS I speak to. My ENEMIES I deride.

          And...is not this what you are doing sir ALSO sir? I can report you too, as far as THAT goes, not that anyone would listen...
          Shema will change the Christian World.

          Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

          Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by nothead View Post

            Why ask why? I am not the ONLY kid on this block. There just so happens to be readers and groupies and fans and enemies too. My FANS I speak to. My ENEMIES I deride.

            And...is not this what you are doing sir ALSO sir? I can report you too, as far as THAT goes, not that anyone would listen...
            Put me in your “fan” category. 👍

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by John Milton View Post

              Put me in your “fan” category. 👍
              In that case donations are in the foyer. And millionaires (if you should so be one) are given VIP status. 10% of a million is em...oh um allota moulah.
              Shema will change the Christian World.

              Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

              Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

              Comment


              • #8
                If Paul was making a point about Jesus/GOD being humble, and us as believers trying to emulate God in his humble position...how in the world does this concept make any sense?

                Jesus being God, counted it not a thing to be accounted, EQUALITY with God. (Equality in the mathematical sense, equivalence).

                RATHER the logic would go...Jesus being EQUAL TO his status as God, MADE himself a man in order to be humble, likened to us becoming "bugs on the wall." (If we could so do).

                There is simply NO SENSE this kind of framing can take. Am I wrong or am I right? What does anything have to do with, the consideration that Jesus TOOK AHOLD of something he already possessed or did not possess? GOD possesses all possible created things. How can GOD dispossess what he already intrinsically possesses? It is the same logic which Trinitarians say about Jesus not knowing everything. SOME trinitarians say Jesus did not KNOW he was God. This is because He (as God) DISPOSSESSED all knowing. Now God only knows in HUMAN type fashion plus. Plus what? Plus em...plus some other things, um. Like a prophet fer instunse? Hint: this is "kenosis theory." Also, the dual nature of Jesus allows for him to be human over here and God over there. As if THAT made any sense whatsoever. Whatever SENSE it takes right? Put it in the machine and see what comes out, righto?

                What a lark! Does it make sense? No, but don't let THAT stop y'all. Keep on keeping on, believing Jesus GOD folks.
                Shema will change the Christian World.

                Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                Comment

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