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What effects did 70 AD and 135 AD have on the Church and Jewish People?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
    You need only show that everyone who believes that the gentiles were graft in call themselves as believing ""replacement theology"" to show that I misunderstand.

    No, one says they believe "replacement theology" as a label for their beliefs.

    It is only a made up phrase by dispensations as a dishonest label to put people who rightly believe in what is known as covenant theology.
    No it is the name given to a false belief nothing at all to do with covenant theology. So many names for beliefs and that does not make those names incorrect.

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    • #17
      How come those who teach covenant theology are often labeled that?
      Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
        What effects did 70 AD and 135 AD( Bar Kokhba revolt ) have on the Church and Jewish People?
        The destruction of the temple in 70 AD and the Bar Kokhba revolt certainly contributed to a permanent split between Christianity and Judaism.

        If you look at the Book of Acts, Paul and early Christians were still attending synagogue services and Jewish Christians were still attending services at the temple in Jerusalem (Acts 21:26) up to the end of the book (c. 63 AD). The Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) merely allowed gentiles to become Christians without following the Jewish law. There is every reason to believe that Jewish Christians in Jerusalem continued to follow Jewish laws. Christianity was simply a Jewish sect.

        The Gospel of John, which dates after the destruction of the temple, includes this statement that points to Christians starting to be forced out of the synagogues at that time:
        His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. John 9:22

        Eusebius provides a list of 15 "bishops of the circumcision" in Jerusalem starting with James the Just and ending in 135 AD after the Bar Kokhba revolt. After that Roman authorities banned Jews from the city, and only gentile bishops are recorded afterwards.

        Jewish Christianity probably ceased to exist as a separate group within orthodox Christianity after this time. There are some indications that some non-orthodox Jewish-Christian sects (Ebonites) continued in areas outside on the Arabian peninsula outside the Roman Empire for centuries after this time. They may have been a basis for the development of Islam in the seventh century.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Theophilos View Post

          The destruction of the temple in 70 AD and the Bar Kokhba revolt certainly contributed to a permanent split between Christianity and Judaism.

          If you look at the Book of Acts, Paul and early Christians were still attending synagogue services and Jewish Christians were still attending services at the temple in Jerusalem (Acts 21:26) up to the end of the book (c. 63 AD). The Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) merely allowed gentiles to become Christians without following the Jewish law. There is every reason to believe that Jewish Christians in Jerusalem continued to follow Jewish laws. Christianity was simply a Jewish sect.

          The Gospel of John, which dates after the destruction of the temple, includes this statement that points to Christians starting to be forced out of the synagogues at that time:
          His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. John 9:22

          Eusebius provides a list of 15 "bishops of the circumcision" in Jerusalem starting with James the Just and ending in 135 AD after the Bar Kokhba revolt. After that Roman authorities banned Jews from the city, and only gentile bishops are recorded afterwards.

          Jewish Christianity probably ceased to exist as a separate group within orthodox Christianity after this time. There are some indications that some non-orthodox Jewish-Christian sects (Ebonites) continued in areas outside on the Arabian peninsula outside the Roman Empire for centuries after this time. They may have been a basis for the development of Islam in the seventh century.
          You so smart aboudit how come you believe Jesus is God sir? Don't you REALIZE that if the first gen saints did, that these Jewish synagogues would have kicked out the Christians WAY BEFORE sir?

          How gomer is your prober sir? You got brains where they count? Likem inyer beany head?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
            What effects did 70 AD and 135 AD( Bar Kokhba revolt ) have on the Church and Jewish People?
            The believers (Jew and Gentile) were able to flee the events of 70AD (Judea and Jerusalem specifically) because of the warning Christ gave them; they fled to Perea and then onward and outward to spread the gospel.

            The effects on unbelieving Jews was of course well documented in Josephus concerning 70AD. I am not as well read on how the Bar Kochba revolt effected the unbelieving Jews, but Rome again put down the rebellion and many were killed that had been deceived into following that rebellion. Believers were unaffected as they knew better than to hang around with those who were openly rebelling against Jesus Christ and against the Roman Empire.
            Cynthia...2 Witnesses knew the events of Damascus Road. Ananias & Judas, Acts 9. Reject Paul? U must reject Luke, Peter 2Pet3:15-18 and Mark, Peter's student. James/John are complicit as well as Matthew.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by cynthia View Post

              The believers (Jew and Gentile) were able to flee the events of 70AD (Judea and Jerusalem specifically) because of the warning Christ gave them; they fled to Perea and then onward and outward to spread the gospel.

              The effects on unbelieving Jews was of course well documented in Josephus concerning 70AD. I am not as well read on how the Bar Kochba revolt effected the unbelieving Jews, but Rome again put down the rebellion and many were killed that had been deceived into following that rebellion. Believers were unaffected as they knew better than to hang around with those who were openly rebelling against Jesus Christ and against the Roman Empire.
              They also (Rabbi's) gave up on the temple ministry as well. Putting forth instead the liturgy of the synagogue in it's place. It is the rabbinic form of supercessionism, and remains so to this day.
              Funny how the covenant promises made to Levi need not be kept, but all the promises made to the common people are to be kept. The Levites inheritance was the priesthood, the Lord's portion. They had no inheritance with Israel. But that did not, nor does not seem to matter to them.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by joline View Post

                They also (Rabbi's) gave up on the temple ministry as well. Putting forth instead the liturgy of the synagogue in it's place. It is the rabbinic form of supercessionism, and remains so to this day.
                Funny how the covenant promises made to Levi need not be kept, but all the promises made to the common people are to be kept. The Levites inheritance was the priesthood, the Lord's portion. They had no inheritance with Israel. But that did not, nor does not seem to matter to them.
                The Letter to the Hebrews explains why the Mosaic Covenant need not be kept after the temple was destroyed. This was the sign of the new order under the New Covenant. Christ is now our High Priest forever.
                Cynthia...2 Witnesses knew the events of Damascus Road. Ananias & Judas, Acts 9. Reject Paul? U must reject Luke, Peter 2Pet3:15-18 and Mark, Peter's student. James/John are complicit as well as Matthew.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by cynthia View Post

                  The Letter to the Hebrews explains why the Mosaic Covenant need not be kept after the temple was destroyed. This was the sign of the new order under the New Covenant. Christ is now our High Priest forever.
                  Yes this is true. But Messianic Jew's often believe only they are allowed to replace them. Have you read their commentary by stern? Their bi-lateral ecclesiology? They get it from Rabbinics.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by joline View Post

                    Yes this is true. But Messianic Jew's often believe only they are allowed to replace them. Have you read their commentary by stern? Their bi-lateral ecclesiology? They get it from Rabbinics.
                    Stay focused on what is true. Christ is our High Priest. Any writings opposing that view is heresy.
                    Cynthia...2 Witnesses knew the events of Damascus Road. Ananias & Judas, Acts 9. Reject Paul? U must reject Luke, Peter 2Pet3:15-18 and Mark, Peter's student. James/John are complicit as well as Matthew.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by cynthia View Post

                      Stay focused on what is true. Christ is our High Priest. Any writings opposing that view is heresy.
                      Yes stay focused also on accusatory comments which are hypocrisy. That is my point. While Some Messianics rage all the promises made to Israel must come to pass, they have their own replacement theology when it comes to the Levites.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by joline View Post

                        Yes stay focused also on accusatory comments which are hypocrisy. That is my point. While Some Messianics rage all the promises made to Israel must come to pass, they have their own replacement theology when it comes to the Levites.
                        The Bible has replacement theology if you want to call it that, because the Levites were replaced by only 1 High Priest, Jesus Christ, of the tribe of Judah, after the order of Melchezidek.
                        Cynthia...2 Witnesses knew the events of Damascus Road. Ananias & Judas, Acts 9. Reject Paul? U must reject Luke, Peter 2Pet3:15-18 and Mark, Peter's student. James/John are complicit as well as Matthew.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by cynthia View Post

                          The Bible has replacement theology if you want to call it that, because the Levites were replaced by only 1 High Priest, Jesus Christ, of the tribe of Judah, after the order of Melchezidek.
                          Yes, I agree. But Rabbinic Judaism says the Levitical services have been superceded in prayers and worship assemblies in the Synagogue.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by joline View Post

                            Yes, I agree. But Rabbinic Judaism says the Levitical services have been superceded in prayers and worship assemblies in the Synagogue.
                            I know that. But they are heretical, so.....
                            Cynthia...2 Witnesses knew the events of Damascus Road. Ananias & Judas, Acts 9. Reject Paul? U must reject Luke, Peter 2Pet3:15-18 and Mark, Peter's student. James/John are complicit as well as Matthew.

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