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Why let one man and one woman ruin it for everyone?

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  • Why let one man and one woman ruin it for everyone?

    Why let one man and one woman ruin it for everyone?
    Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

  • #2
    Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
    Why let one man and one woman ruin it for everyone?
    It was part of the Plan of redemption from before the creation. God did things the way He did, so as to prove His WISDOM in the way they'll all work out in the end.

    Simple as that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

      It was part of the Plan of redemption from before the creation. God did things the way He did, so as to prove His WISDOM in the way they'll all work out in the end.

      Simple as that.
      Or maybe we just don't know why. But good try, and I bet you're a good banjo player too. It might just not be as simple as you claim however. God's main purpose might not be to prove anything for instance.

      We are the provers and shakers. And shakerism is dead.
      Shema will change the Christian World.

      Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

      Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by nothead View Post
        God's main purpose might not be to prove anything.
        But then there's:

        Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
        10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
        11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBtmDbCEsek

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
          Why let one man and one woman ruin it for everyone?
          I contend that GOD WOULD NEVER make us evil by putting us into Adam's sin or sin nature or what ever evil name you want to give to us for becoming conceived and born as human! Light cannot produce dark. Loving righteousness cannot produce evil.

          Have you never noticed that the verb MAKE in Romans 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were MADE sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. is also translated as
          • to appoint one to administer an office
          • to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
          • to show or exhibit one's self
          • to come forward as

          all of which mean the same thing as make without using make to mean to be created that way by the disobedience of the one man, that is, by becoming a human in Adam, they proved they were sinful; they were declared to be, shown to be, already sinners.
          I champion GOD’s holiness:
          - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
          - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

          I champion Our Free will:
          - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

            But then there's:

            Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
            10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
            11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBtmDbCEsek
            Hi Bob, I do not see how Eph 3 relates?
            Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

              I contend that GOD WOULD NEVER make us evil by putting us into Adam's sin or sin nature or what ever evil name you want to give to us for becoming conceived and born as human! Light cannot produce dark. Loving righteousness cannot produce evil.

              Have you never noticed that the verb MAKE in Romans 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were MADE sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. is also translated as
              • to appoint one to administer an office
              • to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
              • to show or exhibit one's self
              • to come forward as

              all of which mean the same thing as make without using make to mean to be created that way by the disobedience of the one man, that is, by becoming a human in Adam, they proved they were sinful; they were declared to be, shown to be, already sinners.
              That answers the How, not the why thanks thou
              Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post

                Hi Bob, I do not see how Eph 3 relates?
                I see it as an "Overall concept" statement.

                The plan of salvation was created before the creation (hinted at in Gen 3:15). Adam's SIN was no surprise to God, and nothing that happened after that has been. SO IF we have confidence that God KNEW what he was doing in the millennia from the beginning - then the "Purpose" of the exercise is stated as GOD DEMONSTRATING HIS WISDOM (to unnamed principalities and powers in the heavenlies) for having done it all in the way that He did.

                And that's already more than I know.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
                  Why let one man and one woman ruin it for everyone?
                  You’re going to see what God thinks of marriage (Heb. 13:4) and faithfulness (Mt 25:23).

                  "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J. Vernon McGee
                  Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
                    That answers the How, not the why thanks thou
                    Sure it does - there is no why because it never happened. No one became evil nor died from being charged with the sin of another: Ezek 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. To blame Adam for the fall of the human race is to contradict this doctrine.

                    To think that GOD would create HIS future Bride as despicably gross and evil, worthy of hell, is absurd.
                    I champion GOD’s holiness:
                    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                    - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

                    I champion Our Free will:
                    - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                      It was part of the Plan of redemption from before the creation. God did things the way He did, so as to prove His WISDOM in the way they'll all work out in the end.

                      Simple as that.
                      Yes!
                      Law makes a demand; Grace makes a provision.

                      Grace terrifies legalists.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

                        Sure it does - there is no why because it never happened. No one became evil nor died from being charged with the sin of another: Ezek 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. To blame Adam for the fall of the human race is to contradict this doctrine.

                        To think that GOD would create HIS future Bride as despicably gross and evil, worthy of hell, is absurd.
                        Ezek 18:20 only states that the person who commits a sin is the only one responsible for the consequences. It does not mean that everybody else does not sin.

                        The whole Bible is a record of God's plan of redemption.

                        Rom 5:12-14
                        Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man [Adam], and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.


                        God provided salvation, so by being born again of incorruptible seed we no longer have a sin nature. Through the new birth we become part of the Bride of Christ.
                        Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                        Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AlFin View Post

                          Ezek 18:20 only states that the person who commits a sin is the only one responsible for the consequences. It does not mean that everybody else does not sin.
                          You write this yet you accept that Adam was responsible of the death of millions, not their own free will.

                          The whole Bible is a record of God's plan of redemption. God provided salvation
                          ...providing salvation does not prove we are sinners in Adam and not sinners by our free will.

                          I champion GOD’s holiness:
                          - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                          - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

                          I champion Our Free will:
                          - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ttruscott View Post
                            You write this yet you accept that Adam was responsible of the death of millions, not their own free will.

                            ...providing salvation does not prove we are sinners in Adam and not sinners by our free will.
                            You conveniently ignored Rom 5:12-14:
                            Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man [Adam], and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.


                            Also, Rom 11:32--For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

                            By doing this, Jesus was able, by his sacrifice on the cross, to provide salvation to everybody who will believe. For people who choose to ignore or reject this offer of salvation before they die there is no remedy.
                            Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                            Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AlFin View Post

                              You conveniently ignored Rom 5:12-14:
                              Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man [Adam], and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
                              I ignore nothing - we just hadn't gotten there yet!

                              12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— so many problems... Sin entered the world with Adam? You believe that? Yet the serpent arrived in the garden with evil intent and Eve sinned at least in two maybe three ways before she enticed Adam and he was the THIRD to sin in the garden!!! Oh lets hear the magic of how these words do not tell the truth straight up! I contend that sin entered the world with him because when he was sown, breathed, into his body of dust, he was already a sinner and the first to enter the world of the garden.

                              Let's look again at what it might mean: 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all had [already] sinned— Already in the Spirit world...

                              Also, Rom 11:32--For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
                              BOUND: b. to shut up on all sides, shut up completely; τινα εἰς τινα or τί, so to deliver one up to the power of a person or thing that he is completely shut in, as it were, without means of escape: τινα εἰςἀπείθειαν, Romans 11:32... In their sins they are bound on earth, shut up so they cannot bedevil the good people of heaven any more.
                              I champion GOD’s holiness:
                              - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                              - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

                              I champion Our Free will:
                              - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

                              Comment

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