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WISDOM and the sound mind

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  • WISDOM and the sound mind

    Eversince, as far as I can remember, I promised to God that I will be firm in my trust in him, and that I will never believe in something I would not understand regardless I may read it in the Bible. I put it to heart that the WORD of God can be searched and would be sound in our minds. I made the promise because I do not have the peace in heart to follow things I do not understand.

    In any case, the Bible is clear: God is not the author of confusion. (1Cor 14:33). And Jesus made it clear and said, “If any man will do his will, he SHALL KNOW of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” (John 7:17). One CAN KNOW what they should believe in God; contrary to others who believe in a faith void of knowledge. Further, Paul said, “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a SOUND MIND.” (2Tim 1:7).

    The WORD of God, as described as TRUTH and LIGHT, implies that the WORD of God is comprehensible, and with certainty. Even as Paul affirms: “But as God is true, our WORD toward you was NOT YEA AND NAY. For the Son of God, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, WAS NOT YEA AND NAY, but in Him WAS YEA.” (2Cor 1:18-19).

    And so I believed that, in the end, the WORD of God will simply lead us to wisdom. The bible itself says, “WISDOM is the PRINCIPAL thing...” (Prov 4:7). And that ultimately, it is WISDOM that will give us the eternal life. Ecclesiates 7:12 says, “...that WISDOM GIVETH LIFE to them that have it.”

    Many believers ignore the PRINCIPALITY of WISDOM, a reason that leads many not to mind their faulty reasoninginbthir faith, and of them ending up as a believer who follow things that are not convenient, or without purpose. At times, their only reason of abiding in inexpedient rules in their faith is their need to adhere by obedience.

    I truly believe that the believer’s adherence to faulty doctrines is not merely a matter of ignorance, but of the heart. Some already knew there are faults in their belief, but their sense of superiority of mind makes it to ignore their lack. The fault in their reasoning to defend their belief will certainly let them down as representative of God and His doctrines. As I have noted we are, as supposed, given a SOUND MIND.

    Now, I want to ask, “Can you conscientiously believe that you are fairly representing the doctrines of God?

    Do you understand the ultimate consequences of presenting the doctrines you believed, its expediency and all, and the consequential punishment if you err in your belief?

    Does your fearlesness to adhere to your belief a matter of heart? or of sound mind conviction? Can you explain the reason why your answer is of conviction, and not of heart? Or of heart, not of sound mind?


    Peace

  • #2
    People believe what they want to believe. And often "choose for themselves" to disobey their conscience that Yahweh provided to warn them of a wrong path.
    The mind is a battleground even for believers also, for the enemy with all the spiritual darkness and all the religious people living in darkness propagating more and more unbelief in Jesus, more and more disobedience to His Word, every day. A person's own familiy (and/or church family, so to speak) often (or "can be") is their worst enemy.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post
      People believe what they want to believe.
      Do posters FEEL that when they knew that what they believe is uncertain or unsound?
      Peace

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Philippians View Post

        Do posters FEEL that when they knew that what they believe is uncertain or unsound?
        It doesn't matter what they feel, does it ? Feelings are not to be trusted nor followed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post

          It doesn't matter what they feel, does it ? Feelings are not to be trusted nor followed.
          Very true! It's all about how our lives line up with the New Covenant gospel.
          Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

          Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, yes, but better is this: how our lives line up with God's Word. As Jesus Says: Who are My bother and sister and mother ? Whoever HEARS the WORD of GOD and DOES IT.

            Some "new covenant" doctrines / theology may not be in line with God's Word.

            Oh, the new covenant is true, certainly.

            But not all of man's "use" of the terms is right necessarily. Just like not all "Christians" are saved(multitudes are not, as written in God's Word) , because there are so many antichrists among us already in the FIRST CENTURY, and ever since then, as written. Beware the deception of the religious teachers - a little leaven leavens the whole loaf - a little greed destroys true faith - a little adultery corrupts - a little idolatry destroys....

            Originally posted by AlFin View Post
            Very true! It's all about how our lives line up with the New Covenant gospel.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AlFin View Post

              Very true! It's all about how our lives line up with the New Covenant gospel.
              But it goes back to the problem of what New Covenant gospel they believed in. Some people had built their belief about the gospel from loads of GUT FEELINGS.

              Sure we follow the gospel, I agree. But what gospel? Are they certain, or just actually following by their gut feelings?

              I am not after arguing what one believe, rather what do believers truly feel while they adhere to their uncertain beliefs.
              Peace

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post

                It doesn't matter what they feel, does it ? Feelings are not to be trusted nor followed.
                If they are CERTAIN then feelings really don’t matter. But are you CERTAIN of all your beliefs? If not, do you consider studying the consquences if you are wrong in those beliefs?
                Peace

                Comment


                • #9
                  Certainly I am Certain in all of what Yahweh has revealed to me, totally in line with all of His Word, Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus.

                  Aren't you certain yourself of your beliefs ? ? If not, then repent and pray constantly and devour (READ CONSTANTLY) Scripture
                  and cry for Yahweh's (God's) Mercy and Hope and Experiential Knowledge of your union with Jesus DAILY, as Yahweh Permits and Accomplishes everything concerning our Salvation as we trust Him So To Do, as WRITTEN IN HIS WORD. Certain beyond all human certainty, as Yahweh is Completely Faithful.

                  Feelings don't matter whether someone is certain of something or not certain - the feelings are not to be trusted nor relied on nor followed.

                  Lean ON GOD'S UNDERSTANDING , always, not on our own understanding.

                  Originally posted by Philippians View Post

                  If they are CERTAIN then feelings really don’t matter. But are you CERTAIN of all your beliefs? If not, do you consider studying the consquences if you are wrong in those beliefs?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Philippians View Post

                    But it goes back to the problem of what New Covenant gospel they believed in. Some people had built their belief about the gospel from loads of GUT FEELINGS.

                    Sure we follow the gospel, I agree. But what gospel? Are they certain, or just actually following by their gut feelings?

                    I am not after arguing what one believe, rather what do believers truly feel while they adhere to their uncertain beliefs.
                    Ah, the famous problem of Christians who on JUDGMENT DAY, even though they were SURE they were saved, find out they were not ever saved. ALL THEIR FRIENDS and CHURCH LEADERS told them they were saved. Eventually their conscience that warned them at first that they were not saved,
                    was burned beyond use, and God gave them over to believe their own delusions (as written in Scripture).

                    Thus, they truly and wholly BELIEVED they were saved, and had 'great' feelings about this all , and emotions,

                    and will be cast in the lake of fire with all their good feelings and emotions and beliefs. Just like mother theresa (who, by the way, NEVER FELT SAVED, as she herself testified many many times, BECAUSE SHE NEVER was saved).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post
                      Certainly I am Certain in all of what Yahweh has revealed to me, totally in line with all of His Word, Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus.
                      If you are CERTAIN of ALL your beliefs, then we have nothing to discuss in this thread. The thread is for those who have uncertainties in their belief, and how they face those uncertainties.

                      Aren't you certain yourself of your beliefs ? ?
                      Not ALL.

                      For instance, the baptism of water. My belief is that no amount of literal baptism of water can really make me holy, or spiritually clean. There are scriptural references that do and do not require water baptism. I count my belief as uncertainty because the scripture seems to offer references as requirement, and or unnecessary. And what I consider as SOUND IN MIND is to agree that water baptism is merely arbitrary and not at all effective in attaining holiness. By appealing to SOUNDNESS OF MIND by which I hold my reason of wtanding firm in my belief.

                      Also, when judging of possible interpretations, I depend on the SOUNDNESS of my mind to choose which I believe is right. But some believers would stick in their interpretation regardless how unsound their interpretation is. It is the reason why these people are deaf on the critcisms against their belief. And the purpose of my thread is to explore this state of scenario by these kind of believers. Have they consider thinking using their soundness of mind, other than looking the scripture in pure context, or when no other part of the scripture supports it?

                      Also, when I do not see any clear and sound interpretation of a scripture, then i simply admit ignorance about it. But how about those who are stating their opiniions, do they really are without care pushing their opinions? For those who realy knew that they are merely opining, have they considered the good or bad consequences of pushing their opinion?

                      Lean ON GOD'S UNDERSTANDING , always, not on our own understanding.
                      Without your understanding, then how would you judge, or correct me?

                      You see, what i can infer of your interpretation of the scripture is wrong. Jesus himself said, “ be wise as seroents...”

                      Judging from the soundness of my mind, I do not need Scripture to show how wrong your interpretation is. The command is directed to the fools and ignorant, they really have no part in judging others. You know how fools nake decisions? It’s destructive, so they are not allowed to use their own understanding.

                      Will you push you interpretation(belief) regardless it is unsound? Have you ever consudered the bad consequences of pushing your interpretation(belief)?

                      Peace

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Philippians View Post
                        Eversince, as far as I can remember, I promised to God that I will be firm in my trust in him, and that I will never believe in something I would not understand regardless I may read it in the Bible. I put it to heart that the WORD of God can be searched and would be sound in our minds. I made the promise because I do not have the peace in heart to follow things I do not understand.

                        In any case, the Bible is clear: God is not the author of confusion. (1Cor 14:33). And Jesus made it clear and said, “If any man will do his will, he SHALL KNOW of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” (John 7:17). One CAN KNOW what they should believe in God; contrary to others who believe in a faith void of knowledge. Further, Paul said, “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a SOUND MIND.” (2Tim 1:7).

                        The WORD of God, as described as TRUTH and LIGHT, implies that the WORD of God is comprehensible, and with certainty. Even as Paul affirms: “But as God is true, our WORD toward you was NOT YEA AND NAY. For the Son of God, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, WAS NOT YEA AND NAY, but in Him WAS YEA.” (2Cor 1:18-19).

                        And so I believed that, in the end, the WORD of God will simply lead us to wisdom. The bible itself says, “WISDOM is the PRINCIPAL thing...” (Prov 4:7). And that ultimately, it is WISDOM that will give us the eternal life. Ecclesiates 7:12 says, “...that WISDOM GIVETH LIFE to them that have it.”

                        Many believers ignore the PRINCIPALITY of WISDOM, a reason that leads many not to mind their faulty reasoninginbthir faith, and of them ending up as a believer who follow things that are not convenient, or without purpose. At times, their only reason of abiding in inexpedient rules in their faith is their need to adhere by obedience.

                        I truly believe that the believer’s adherence to faulty doctrines is not merely a matter of ignorance, but of the heart. Some already knew there are faults in their belief, but their sense of superiority of mind makes it to ignore their lack. The fault in their reasoning to defend their belief will certainly let them down as representative of God and His doctrines. As I have noted we are, as supposed, given a SOUND MIND.

                        Now, I want to ask, “Can you conscientiously believe that you are fairly representing the doctrines of God?

                        Do you understand the ultimate consequences of presenting the doctrines you believed, its expediency and all, and the consequential punishment if you err in your belief?

                        Does your fearlesness to adhere to your belief a matter of heart? or of sound mind conviction? Can you explain the reason why your answer is of conviction, and not of heart? Or of heart, not of sound mind?

                        There is considerable difference between a new babe in Christ and those that have known the Scriptures for years and sat under good teaching. Further we also know from Scripture that some authors of Scripture (Paul) for instance wrote things that are difficult to understand. Further when Jesus led the disciples on earth it is fairly clear that they fell far short of having a clear understanding of all that Jesus taught, even after the resurrection they did not have complete understanding.

                        Fortunately most of us do not live on how much we know, but by faith in the One that knows all things. We can and should go to Him to gain wisdom. But where did people go to gain wisdom in the OT? Did they not go to the One that promised? What if the Jew didn't believe the One that promised?-----how were they going to recognize the Messiah if they didn't?

                        Thine they were and Thou gavest them to Me. What does that mean to you? Is our wisdom the same as God's wisdom? Jesus said He knew who believed from the beginning, what did that mean when He was born 30 some years earlier and didn't take the public stage until age 30. Did Jesus know the heart of the religious leaders? Why did Jesus tell them they didn't believe the prophets? Did not God speak through the prophets? (Hebrews 1).

                        The religious leaders claimed all kinds of wisdom-----yet said Jesus did His work by Beelzebub. Where did their supposed wisdom come from? It certainly wasn't from the Scriptures.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sean Stewart View Post

                          There is considerable difference between a new babe in Christ and those that have known the Scriptures for years and sat under good teaching.
                          True, but there are people who are "everlearning but were never able to come to the knowledge of truth." We really ought not to measure spiritual maturity by the length of studying. It also gives the impression that those who studied in universities are more mature or learned of spiritual truth. Mind you, our belief in these things serves as foundation or basis in forming our main beliefs.

                          Further we also know from Scripture that some authors of Scripture (Paul) for instance wrote things that are difficult to understand. Further when Jesus led the disciples on earth it is fairly clear that they fell far short of having a clear understanding of all that Jesus taught, even after the resurrection they did not have complete understanding.
                          As Jesus said, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." There are things that are not revealed to us, and not all were given to know things that were given to others. Paul for instance did not communicate his gospel to the gentiles except to those in authority amongst the disciples.

                          But consider our goal; " Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be NO MORE children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with EVERY wind of DOCTRINE, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (Eph 4:13-14)"

                          Fortunately most of us do not live on how much we know, but by faith in the One that knows all things. We can and should go to Him to gain wisdom. But where did people go to gain wisdom in the OT?
                          OT people did not have the revelation of the godhead during their time. It was Christ who revealed to us the godhead. ONLY Christ have the revelation of the godhead, and he revealed the godhead to the apostles. (John 1:18)

                          I infer that your ignorance of this issue would imply your lack of knowledge of the truth of the Godhead. You must have not known the very purpose of the gospel is to reveal the Godhead.

                          Did they not go to the One that promised? What if the Jew didn't believe the One that promised?-----how were they going to recognize the Messiah if they didn't?
                          Believing is not what saves us, rather it is WHAT we believe that saves us. The devils "believe" and tremble, but they are not saved. Read also what Paul said in Romans 10:1-3.

                          In my study of the gospel, It gave me the implication that the knowledge of the godhead is given of God. Our salvation is knowing the godhead (John 17:3). If there were Jews that were saved during the time they were blinded, then it must be that God himself who gives the knowledge of the Godhead. I considered also that the revelation of the godhead was only given to man through Christ, then the people in the OT will be saved because they will be given the knowledge of the godhead in the resurrection.The elect are predestinated even before the world begun.



                          Thine they were and Thou gavest them to Me. What does that mean to you?
                          It mean that Christ will be the heir of God's works.


                          [quote]Is our wisdom the same as God's wisdom?[quote]
                          For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (1Cor 2:16)

                          Jesus said He knew who believed from the beginning, what did that mean when He was born 30 some years earlier and didn't take the public stage until age 30. Did Jesus know the heart of the religious leaders? Why did Jesus tell them they didn't believe the prophets? Did not God speak through the prophets? (Hebrews 1).

                          Jesus knew what will happen of his ministry. He knew that he will be denied by the Israelites.. He knew things are predestined to happen, even those who will believe..

                          The religious leaders claimed all kinds of wisdom-----yet said Jesus did His work by Beelzebub. Where did their supposed wisdom come from? It certainly wasn't from the Scriptures.
                          What I can say is that it is God who gives the knowledge and understanding. And if you admit ignorance What does that really mean to you?
                          Peace

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post

                            It doesn't matter what they feel, does it ? Feelings are not to be trusted nor followed.
                            That ‘feelings are not to be trusted’ is a platonic concept. I kid you not. I would not trust that pagan Greek plato at all, and not on this topic, either.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No.

                              It is not even related to playdo.... .......

                              More in line with all Scripture concerning carnality, the flesh, the old man, and all that Yahweh says about not following nor trusting feelings, - not being controlled by the 'old man', rather being a new creation.


                              Originally posted by e v e View Post

                              That ‘feelings are not to be trusted’ is a platonic concept. I kid you not. I would not trust that pagan Greek plato at all, and not on this topic, either.

                              Comment

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