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Lifestyles of the un-raptured

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  • Lifestyles of the un-raptured

    Discussions of the End Times usually involve the disappearance (from Earth) of a significant number of saintly people (I often hear the number 144,000 - which I suspect is not ironclad but merely hints at a noticeable percentage of the population), who are Raptured up to Heaven while still alive, leaving the rest (the vast majority of the living populace) to suffer through years of oppression under the Great Beast or the Antichrist. Novels and movies have been based on this scenario, usually with the storyline of some people banding together to resist or oppose this reign of the Evil One, notwithstanding the terms and description are described in Scripture. I solicit opinions on whether/how life will go after the Rapture. I am particularly curious if the resistance proposed in novels, or the avoidance of purchasing suggested by (among others) Jim Bakker's promotion of bomb shelter food, is a form of "cheating" by refusing to conform to the Biblical predictions.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Shoonra View Post
    Discussions of the End Times usually involve the disappearance (from Earth) of a significant number of saintly people
    I think that it's much more likely that there willl be a MASS PHYSICAL DEATH of those called in the Rapture, since our "physical bodies" are of no use in heaven. It would be rationalized as a "Mysterious plague" of unknown cause, or origin by those who remain.

    (I often hear the number 144,000 - which I suspect is not ironclad but merely hints at a noticeable percentage of the population)
    The 144,000 is from Revelation 7, of course, and also says that they're all "Male Celibate Jews" also giving their tribal association. There's no clear connection with the "Rapture", however. This or that "Theologian" / "Denominational Paradigm" / "Playwright" /"Author" / etc. have assigned ALL SORTS of "Creative Significances" to the passage.

    leaving the rest (the vast majority of the living populace) to suffer through years of oppression under the Great Beast or the Antichrist.
    I.e. the 7 (or 3.5) year "GREAT Tribulation".

    Novels and movies have been based on this scenario,
    BOY HOWDY!!!! Personally, I like the "Christ Clone Trilogy" by James BeauSiegneur, written in Sci-Fi style (living DNA is found on the "Shroud of Turin", and a person is "cloned" from it). As "Biblical Fiction" goes, it's rather well done, I think.

    usually with the storyline of some people banding together to resist or oppose this reign of the Evil One, notwithstanding the terms and description are described in Scripture. I solicit opinions on whether/how life will go after the Rapture.
    Probably just more of the Same 'ol, Same 'ol, with a growing level of human brutality as human nature unrestrained expresses itself normally.

    Whether or not anybody can, or will be Born Again during this period is "just another" controversy. Personally I suspect that it won't be possible, since the Holy Spirit won't be striving with humans any longer.

    I am particularly curious if the resistance proposed in novels, or the avoidance of purchasing suggested by (among others) Jim Bakker's promotion of bomb shelter food, is a form of "cheating" by refusing to conform to the Biblical predictions.
    The "Left behind" series presents an totally idiotic "Tribulation force" scenario which helps to fill the books with Hollywood intrigue, and it's associated stupidity.

    Bakker's "Revelation food" is a scam that surfaces (as it did in the '70s), normally during times of revival, when the church actually THINKS about "end time" things (instead of the paint color in the auditoreum).

    In General, "Eschatology" is just another term for RANK SPECULATION.
    Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 01-12-19, 04:18 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Shoonra, there is no 'rapture to heaven' of the Church. That theory is not found in scripture.
      The gathering prophesied by Paul in 1 Thess 4:17, is just a transportation of those who remain alive when Jesus Returns, to where He is. Proved by Matthew 24:30-31

      We Christians, all who stand firm in their faith will form the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, so will not have to take the 'mark of the beast'.
      More information on the Prophetic Word at logostelos.info

      Comment


      • #4
        [QUOTE=Bob Carabbio;n5769167]

        I think that it's much more likely that there willl be a MASS PHYSICAL DEATH of those called in the Rapture, since our "physical bodies" are of no use in heaven. It would be rationalized as a "Mysterious plague" of unknown cause, or origin by those who remain.[ QUOTE ]


        Bob, the still alive in 1 Thess.4:17 will have their still alive Lowly Mortal bodies get TRANSFORMED ( as Per Philippians 3:21 ) into their new Glorious Immortal Heavenly bodies as they are getting Caught Up ( Raptured ) together with the bodies of the dead in Christ that get raised ( resurrected ) First in 1 Thess.4:16 before that Caught Up together happens next! Also 1 Cor.15:42-54 tells us of the resurrection bodies and still alive bodies getting CHANGED from Mortal to Immortal like Jesus' Glorious ( Immortal Flesh & Bone resurrection - see Luke 24:39 ) body, as per the posted scriptures in this response! Mortal Flesh & Blood bodies can not inherit Heaven ( as per 1 Cor.15:50 ), but our new glorious Immortal Flesh & Bone bodies can! As per 1 Thess.4:14, Jesus will bring the souls/spirits of the dead with Him as He comes down from heaven ( verse 16 ) to those clouds in the air ( verse 17 ) in earth's atmosphere! Thus when the Caught Up together ( resurrection bodies of the souls/spirits dead & still Alive believers ) reach those clouds in the air ( in earth's atmosphere ) to meet with Jesus ( who came down from Heaven with the saved souls/spirits ), then the souls/spirits can unite with their Caught Up resurrection bodies! Then Jesus will take them all ( in their Glorious new immortal flesh & Bone bodies, like His Glorious resurrection body ) to His Father's house in Heaven, where He prepared a place for them ( John 14:2-3 ) to get ready for His wedding ( Rev.19:7-8 )!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by keras View Post
          Shoonra, there is no 'rapture to heaven' of the Church. That theory is not found in scripture.
          The gathering prophesied by Paul in 1 Thess 4:17, is just a transportation of those who remain alive when Jesus Returns, to where He is. Proved by Matthew 24:30-31

          We Christians, all who stand firm in their faith will form the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, so will not have to take the 'mark of the beast'.
          More information on the Prophetic Word at logostelos.info
          WRONG because Matt.24:30-31 is His Post Trib. coming to planet earth to REIGN ( See Isaiah 24:23 ) in Jerusalem for 1000 years with those priest of Rev.20:4-6 and 1 Thess.4:14-17 is His Pre-trib. coming to the clouds in the air ( in earth's atmosphere ) to fetch all His Bride members ( the dead & still Alive ) for His wedding in Heaven in Rev.19:7-8! His bride ( all those in 1 Thess.4:17 ) will Follow Him 7 years later at His Post-Trib. return ( Matt.24:29 ) as part of the armies in Heaven in Rev.19:14, which is AFTER the wedding, Keras! There is a scriptural difference between coming down from Heaven to the clouds in the air ( in earth's atmosphere ) in 1 Thess.4:14-17 and coming down from Heaven to earth's surface at the Mt. of Olives ( Zech.14:4 ) at that Post Trib. return in Matt.24:29-31 )! The clouds in the Air in 1 Thess.4:17 are NOT earth's surface at the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem! Case closed on your view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) that the clouds in the air are the SAME place as the earth's surface at the Mt. of Olives!
          Last edited by Rod.ney; 01-12-19, 08:54 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rod.ney View Post
            WRONG because Matt.24:30-31 is His Post Trib. coming to planet earth to REIGN ( See Isaiah 24:23 ) in Jerusalem for 1000 years with those priest of Rev.20:4-6 and 1 Thess.4:14-17 is His Pre-trib. coming to the clouds in the air ( in earth's atmosphere ) to fetch all His Bride members ( the dead & still Alive ) for His wedding in Heaven in Rev.19:7-8! His bride ( all those in 1 Thess.4:17 ) will Follow Him 7 years later at His Post-Trib. return ( Matt.24:29 ) as part of the armies in Heaven in Rev.19:14, which is AFTER the wedding, Keras! There is a scriptural difference between coming down from Heaven to the clouds in the air ( in earth's atmosphere ) in 1 Thess.4:14-17 and coming down from Heaven to earth's surface at the Mt. of Olives ( Zech.14:4 ) at that Post Trib. return in Matt.24:29-31 )! The clouds in the Air in 1 Thess.4:17 are NOT earth's surface at the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem! Case closed on your view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) that the clouds in the air are the SAME place as the earth's surface at the Mt. of Olives!
            The usual Rod.ney dreams and weird ideas. Matthew 16:27 and Matthew 25:31 totally refute the crazy notion of us being part of the Lord's angelic armies.

            We Christians will not and cannot be removed from this earth. Heaven is a place for Spirit beings and 'rapture to heaven' believers, of whatever timing; know this, so their answer to that is: we are 'changed' and made immortal at the moment of rapture. This ignores the plain scripture of Revelation 20:11-15, of how it is only at the Great White Throne Judgement, that immortality is conferred to those whose names are found in the Book of Life. The 'change at the twinkle of an eye', in Corinthians 15, is a prophecy about what happens at the GWT, AFTER the Millennium.

            Re the word 'escape' in Luke 21:36. This is rendered as 'pass safely through' in the Revised English Bible.
            Although 'escape' is one way of translating the Greek word there, it conflicts with the context of the immediately preceding verse 35, that says what will happen; 'will come upon everyone the whole world over'. The REB correctly renders Luke 21:34-36. Certainly, verse 36 does not even hint of a rapture to heaven; that has to be imposed onto the text.

            Re Revelation 3:10. Being 'kept from', doesn't mean taken away from. The 3 men in the fiery furnace weren't taken out of it, they were protected in it. Noah went thru the Flood, people today face persecution; itís simply illogical to even think that suddenly God will allow His people to 'escape, away fromí, trials and testing, let alone take them all up to heaven before Judgement!

            The other aspect of a 'rapture to heaven', is what does God really want of His people? We have the Great Commission. Matthew 28:19 When did, or when will, God rescind that?




            So what will the Lord do for His faithful people?
            Most will know that I point out how the Lord's holy people, that is: every faithful Christian, will be gathered into all of the holy Land, Psalm 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, where they will be the people God always wanted in His Land, being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-15



            I have plenty of Biblical proofs of this. It is what will happen, any other belief is deception.

            Comment


            • #7
              I hadn't meant to start a fuss over the mechanics (and other details) of the Rapturing. I wanted some insights on the living conditions and coping practices of those who were not spared the experience of the Tribulation. Am I to assume that all the unpleasantness of life during the Trib is the prescribed punishment for sinners and that those who must experience the Trib should submit to those indignities and inconvenience as part of an intended rehabilitative process, so that hiding/resisting/otherwise evading the unpleasantness is a form of cheating on a penitential assignment?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Shoonra View Post
                I hadn't meant to start a fuss over the mechanics (and other details) of the Rapturing. I wanted some insights on the living conditions and coping practices of those who were not spared the experience of the Tribulation. Am I to assume that all the unpleasantness of life during the Trib is the prescribed punishment for sinners and that those who must experience the Trib should submit to those indignities and inconvenience as part of an intended rehabilitative process, so that hiding/resisting/otherwise evading the unpleasantness is a form of cheating on a penitential assignment?
                Shoona, do not worry, put your trust in the Lord, He has promised protection for His faithful people. 1 Corinthians 10:13, Psalms 37:18-19
                Read Revelation 12:6-16, it tells us that the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety during the time of Satan's dominion. But verse 17 shows that those Christians who lost their faith, must remain for the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by keras View Post

                  The usual Rod.ney dreams and weird ideas. Matthew 16:27 and Matthew 25:31 totally refute the crazy notion of us being part of the Lord's angelic armies.

                  We Christians will not and cannot be removed from this earth. Heaven is a place for Spirit beings and 'rapture to heaven' believers, of whatever timing; know this, so their answer to that is: we are 'changed' and made immortal at the moment of rapture. This ignores the plain scripture of Revelation 20:11-15, of how it is only at the Great White Throne Judgement, that immortality is conferred to those whose names are found in the Book of Life. The 'change at the twinkle of an eye', in Corinthians 15, is a prophecy about what happens at the GWT, AFTER the Millennium.

                  Re the word 'escape' in Luke 21:36. This is rendered as 'pass safely through' in the Revised English Bible.
                  Although 'escape' is one way of translating the Greek word there, it conflicts with the context of the immediately preceding verse 35, that says what will happen; 'will come upon everyone the whole world over'. The REB correctly renders Luke 21:34-36. Certainly, verse 36 does not even hint of a rapture to heaven; that has to be imposed onto the text.

                  Re Revelation 3:10. Being 'kept from', doesn't mean taken away from. The 3 men in the fiery furnace weren't taken out of it, they were protected in it. Noah went thru the Flood, people today face persecution; itís simply illogical to even think that suddenly God will allow His people to 'escape, away fromí, trials and testing, let alone take them all up to heaven before Judgement!

                  The other aspect of a 'rapture to heaven', is what does God really want of His people? We have the Great Commission. Matthew 28:19 When did, or when will, God rescind that?




                  So what will the Lord do for His faithful people?
                  Most will know that I point out how the Lord's holy people, that is: every faithful Christian, will be gathered into all of the holy Land, Psalm 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, where they will be the people God always wanted in His Land, being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-15



                  I have plenty of Biblical proofs of this. It is what will happen, any other belief is deception.
                  FYI Keras, God's say so in 1 Thess.4:17 says the Still Alive ( believers ) get Caught Up ( Raptured ) off of earth and get taken to His Fathers house in Heaven as per John 14:2-3! All you did here was to post your WRONG say so instead of dealing with those scriptures as is off the pages in our Bibles! Jesus is right now in His Glorious Immortal Flesh & Bone body in Heaven seated at His Father's right hand side! When the Caught Up happens, the still alive born again believers will get their Lowly Mortal Flesh & Blood bodies TRANSFORMED into their New Glorious Immortal Flesh & Bone bodies just like Jesus' Glorious resurrection body described in Luke 24:39 and then get taken from those clouds in the air, up to Heaven in His Fathers house to get ready for His wedding ( Rev.19:7-8 ) Case closed on your Twisted view (2 Peter 3:16 )!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Shoonra View Post
                    I hadn't meant to start a fuss over the mechanics (and other details) of the Rapturing. I wanted some insights on the living conditions and coping practices of those who were not spared the experience of the Tribulation. Am I to assume that all the unpleasantness of life during the Trib is the prescribed punishment for sinners and that those who must experience the Trib should submit to those indignities and inconvenience as part of an intended rehabilitative process, so that hiding/resisting/otherwise evading the unpleasantness is a form of cheating on a penitential assignment?
                    Shoonra, despite the rabid protestations of those who want God to do something He has never said He would do; that is, to take His Church to live in heaven, everyone will remain on earth. The place we were made to live in and experiencing the destiny that God has planned for His people. For those who believe in His and trust His saving grace, that will be a fantastic outcome.

                    Godís Holy People in the Last Days: The rapture totally refuted.

                    Daniel 8:23-26 In the last days, when sin is most prevalent, a powerful leader will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does, and will take control of the mighty nations and Godís holy people. By cunning and deceit, his plans will come about and cause great harm to many when they least expect it. He will challenge even the Prince of Princes, but then will be broken, but not by human hand.
                    This prophecy tells of events to happen in the distant future.

                    Daniel 7:23-25 The explanation given is: There will be a 4th kingdom, one that will encompass the whole earth. Initially ten rulers will govern it, but another leader will take over all this kingdom. He will defy the Most High God and will conquer the holy ones of God.
                    Isaiah 62:12 They will be called the holy people; the Redeemed of the LordÖ.
                    Revelation 13:7 The Ďbeastí is allowed to wage war on Godís people and to defeat themÖ. Zechariah 14:1-2
                    Daniel 11:32 By plausible promises he will win over those who will violate the Covenant, but some will resolutely keep their faith.

                    These Bible prophesies are proof that Godís holy people, His chosen elect people; all those true born again believers; the One people of God, Ephesians 4:4-6, are not removed from the earth, as some would think, but are present in the holy Land during the last few years of this age.
                    As we see in Daniel 11:32 and in Zechariah 14:2, they divide into two groups, one remaining in the holy Land and the other goes away. Revelation 12:6-17 again shows these two groups; the faithful ones who refused the peace treaty with the leader of the World Govt, taken to a place of safety and those who did agree, Isaiah 28:14-15, must remain. Revelation 12:17
                    The fact of all the righteous Christians living in all of the Holy Land, before the Return of Jesus, is well prophesied in all of the Bible. Many do not see it because of false teachings and not comprehending the truth of how Christians are now to be the recipientís of the promises of God, given initially to ethnic Israel, but now available to all true believers.
                    We Christians look forward to being at last the people God has always wanted in His holy Land.
                    That is our promise and our great privilege; to be alive to participate at this critical time of mankindís history.

                    What I pray all will do, is see the real truth of what actually will happen.
                    Do you realize what a joke the rapture to heaven theory is? And Satan is delighted at how Christians argue over whether it going to be pre, mid or post!!!!!!!
                    For all of our lifetimes, this issue has been discussed, argued over, even fought over. Innumerable books, movies, etc made about it and still no consensus about when it could happen. There is no Bible verse that says God will take living people to heaven, but those who promote a rapture say; It is there, you just can't see it! Sorry, I can't see it because it isn't there!

                    There is a huge deception going on here. People have believed false teachers, Paul said they would. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
                    And God has allowed those wolves to ravage His flock. So most of the Church is not aware of what God really does plan for our future. They are complacent and careless, which means when the hard times come, they won't have the strength of faith to stand firm. Luke 21:34-36 [and don't think 'escape all these things', means a rapture, because that idea is pure assumption and conflicts with scriptures as above.]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shoonra View Post
                      Discussions of the End Times usually involve the disappearance (from Earth) of a significant number of saintly people (I often hear the number 144,000 - which I suspect is not ironclad but merely hints at a noticeable percentage of the population), who are Raptured up to Heaven while still alive, leaving the rest (the vast majority of the living populace) to suffer through years of oppression under the Great Beast or the Antichrist. Novels and movies have been based on this scenario, usually with the storyline of some people banding together to resist or oppose this reign of the Evil One, notwithstanding the terms and description are described in Scripture. I solicit opinions on whether/how life will go after the Rapture. I am particularly curious if the resistance proposed in novels, or the avoidance of purchasing suggested by (among others) Jim Bakker's promotion of bomb shelter food, is a form of "cheating" by refusing to conform to the Biblical predictions.
                      Only believers in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ believes in the blessed hope of the resurrection and the glorification of the body of Christ. The scriptures calls this the "redemption" of the body and places the event in a future time. It is easy to see if you believe what you read. If you do not believe what is written then there is no hope for you.

                      Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
                      10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
                      11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

                      The new birth is a present reality when believers receive the Spirit upon believing but the inheritance, which is a joint inheritance with Jesus Christ, requires an adoption. Since the inheritance is in heaven a new glorified body that is made fit for that place is needed to receive the inheritance. See these two passages below.

                      6 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (ARE is present tense)
                      17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (WHEN?)

                      18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (WHEN?)
                      19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

                      20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,(hope of adoption and glorification and redemption of the body)
                      21 Because the creature (physical body) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

                      22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
                      23 And not only they (the whole creation), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves (because of the mortal body), waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (The adoption is the redemption of the body. Believers are waiting for it. It is our hope).

                      24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
                      25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. (we are waitng for the redemption of the body. we already have the Spirit of God, which is the new birth)

                      So, compare V 15 with V 23 for focus.

                      15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
                      23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.(we have received him into our mortal bodies but we need a glorified and eternal body and that is the promise)

                      Take a look at where our inheritance is:

                      1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,(If our hope is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, then how is it hope for OT believers)
                      4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
                      5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

                      When will the glorification of the body that we are hoping for take place? Peter said it would take place in "the last time."

                      Having purposed to glorify every believer "in Christ," that is "in his body,' he has predestinated the adoption of that body to be glorified.

                      Ep 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, (what did Rom 8:23 say the adoption is? Yes, it is the redemption of the body)

                      The indwelling Spirit, which is our new birth and the saving of our soul, is the "down payment" on our inheritance in Christ, which will be full redemption at our predestinated glorification.. See below.

                      13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
                      14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

                      11 In whom (Christ) also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

                      No one can read this without concluding that the purpose of God is to give all those who are "in Christ" an inheritance that is reserved in heaven and is to be realized at the glorification of the body. The body of Christ is singular, meaning it is one body, and it is also made up of many members (all of the whole but differing in function in the body). Christ Jesus, the head, has been glorified at his resurrection from the dead, but the body has not yet been glorified.The Head is in heaven now but the body is not yet glorified and is on the earth. But when will it be glorified?


                      9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
                      10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times (Peter said this would happen in the last time) he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

                      So then, the church, the body of Christ, that is being formed now by the Spirit of God from the body of Jesus Christ, will be gathered together from heaven and from the earth into one place and will be taken to the Father's house as the bride of Christ. The singular body and the individual bodied are resurrected and glorified and will abide forever with Christ.

                      1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
                      52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
                      53 For this corruptible (those who have died previously) must put on incorruption, and this mortal (those who are alive when Christ glorifies us) must put on immortality.
                      54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


                      This is what the "rapture" is all about.

                      I once asked this of a Calvinist evangelist;
                      Is it possible for an elect person ever to die lost and is it possible for a non elect person ever to be saved and he answered "no" to both questions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Shoonra View Post
                        I solicit opinions on whether/how life will go after the Rapture. I am particularly curious if the resistance proposed in novels, or the avoidance of purchasing suggested by (among others) Jim Bakker's promotion of bomb shelter food, is a form of "cheating" by refusing to conform to the Biblical predictions.
                        Those are very interesting questions. The thing that comes to my mind is that there will be a very wide spectrum of reactions to the disappearance of the saved, followed by a divergence in how those who remain deal with the ensuing and increasingly catastrophic events.

                        A study of remnants in the Bible, and Jesus' own admonition that "I never knew you" lead me to believe that the disappearance will not be in the huge numbers as is commonly thought. I believe, and Revelation 2&3 indicate, there will be whole congregations of the denominational churches who will be left sitting in their pews (figuratively) after the saved are snatched away.

                        That being said, those left-behind church-goers who for all intents and purposes believed themselves eligible for heaven because they "are a good person," and who have had at least a weekly dosage of the gospel message, will have an entirely different reaction to the rapture than, say, your average hedonistic and atheistic carnal earth dwellers. Where they stood on the Jesus issue before the rapture will play a major part in how their life will be after the rapture.

                        I'm thinking that those who have been exposed to God's word, and who are even remotely aware of what Revelation says that God has in store for the earth, will take great pains to prepare themselves for the coming judgments. Those who have always rejected God will go on as before, partying and enjoying their hedonistic lifestyles ... even more unrestrained because the Christian influence is no longer present ... ever more rebellious against the God that they claim they don't believe in.

                        I have no doubt there will be resistance and underground communities of new believers, but I don't feel this would be cheating. Scripture does tell us there will be a great soul harvest during the tribulation, but that life will be extremely difficult for the new believers, and most will die as martyrs.

                        I could go on with this interesting thought experiment, but I'm done for now.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PhotoReality View Post

                          Those are very interesting questions. The thing that comes to my mind is that there will be a very wide spectrum of reactions to the disappearance of the saved, followed by a divergence in how those who remain deal with the ensuing and increasingly catastrophic events.

                          A study of remnants in the Bible, and Jesus' own admonition that "I never knew you" lead me to believe that the disappearance will not be in the huge numbers as is commonly thought. I believe, and Revelation 2&3 indicate, there will be whole congregations of the denominational churches who will be left sitting in their pews (figuratively) after the saved are snatched away.

                          That being said, those left-behind church-goers who for all intents and purposes believed themselves eligible for heaven because they "are a good person," and who have had at least a weekly dosage of the gospel message, will have an entirely different reaction to the rapture than, say, your average hedonistic and atheistic carnal earth dwellers. Where they stood on the Jesus issue before the rapture will play a major part in how their life will be after the rapture.

                          I'm thinking that those who have been exposed to God's word, and who are even remotely aware of what Revelation says that God has in store for the earth, will take great pains to prepare themselves for the coming judgments. Those who have always rejected God will go on as before, partying and enjoying their hedonistic lifestyles ... even more unrestrained because the Christian influence is no longer present ... ever more rebellious against the God that they claim they don't believe in.

                          I have no doubt there will be resistance and underground communities of new believers, but I don't feel this would be cheating. Scripture does tell us there will be a great soul harvest during the tribulation, but that life will be extremely difficult for the new believers, and most will die as martyrs.

                          I could go on with this interesting thought experiment, but I'm done for now.
                          Some very interesting comments.
                          Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

                          When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense, else you get nonsense.

                          I believe that God said what he meant and He means what He said.

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