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  • Dispensationalist? Do you believe this?

    Rod.ney roby3 I don't want to assume the worst of people so I'd rather ask this question upfront to all dispensationalists. But even if you believe it, I suppose we all make mistakes. Not-the-less, please tell me if you agree with this:


  • #2
    Originally posted by HENOG View Post
    Rod.ney roby3 I don't want to assume the worst of people so I'd rather ask this question upfront to all dispensationalists. But even if you believe it, I suppose we all make mistakes. Not-the-less, please tell me if you agree with this:

    Absolutely agree, the Jews are God's chosen people and He could care less what anyone believes.

    And I will bless those who bless you,
    And the one who curses you I will curse.
    And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”


    He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever
    Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

    When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense, else you get nonsense.

    I believe that God said what he meant and He means what He said.

    Comment


    • #3
      True believers are the Israel of God
      Many ask, Who are God's chosen people in the earth today? Who are His elect? Are they of the natural seed of the children of Israel? Are they the "Jews" according to their ethnic lineage? Or are God's chosen people now the Christian believers of Jesus Christ?
      It is commonly believed that the church must be raptured into heaven so that God can renew His separate program with the natural Jew. But is this truth? Is He going to redeem them in their present state, then remarry them?

      Will the O.T. Law: the Mosaic Covenant which was only temporary, Hebrews 7:12 & 8:l3, be able to somehow in the future, disannul the Abrahamic covenant, of which the church is now the only partaker through the Seed of Abraham: who is Jesus Christ.

      It has been well said, that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The whole Bible teaches only ONE acceptable seed, ONE family, ONE all-encompassing covenant, only ONE Israelite people as the true Covenant "children of the living God." Romans 9:26, Eph. 4:4-6
      The New Covenant promised seed has been sown and is risen to replace the Old Covenant chosen seed and its unfruitful, ineffective, but once necessary life has passed out of God's plan, just as surely as have works of the Old Testament Law.
      Ancient Israel, is a type of the "first man Adam, the old man": the natural body. Whereas the new Israel of Christianity is of the "last Adam, the new creation", a spiritual body.
      The firstborn was Jacob, typifying Israel of the flesh- Ex.4:22; Hos.11:1. The second born: Jesus, was of the Spirit, 1 Cor.12:12-14. In Genesis 25:23 we also see two nations, a natural ethnic Israel and a spiritual true; Israel of God.

      Israel of old was chosen as the firstfruits nation of the fallen Adamic seed to receive and carry the revelation of the creative, redemptive, promises of God Almighty. Isaiah 43:10; Romans 3:2 It was revealed to them long ago: I the Lord am holy and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. Leviticus 20:26
      God later divorced ethnic Israel on the grounds of whoring after idols. Jer. 3:1-11 and will marry another woman: the true Christian believers. Matthew 21:43, Isaiah 62:1-5

      The faithful and obedient children in the true "Israel of God" are being prepared and made ready, Revelation 19:7…prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
      In perfect holy union, the bride, the Lamb's wife, shall be called "the holy people, the redeemed of the Lord”. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10

      False teaching is that God's chosen are still the natural Jew and that everything for us as a Christian is in heaven; that Jesus has to hurry up and rapture us out of the earth so that He can renew His program and make another covenant with the chosen Jewish nation. But, the truth of Bible teaching is that Christian believers are His only chosen and that only through Abrahams Seed, the true Christian Church, shall all the families of the earth he blessed, then we had better stop and re-evaluate this issue. The serious mistake for far too long, has been--that much of the Bible's truth concerning Israel is part of another Covenant and for another day or another people.

      Friends, that is actually "another gospel." Galatians 1:8-9 Ref; Ross McKay

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by HENOG View Post
        Rod.ney roby3 I don't want to assume the worst of people so I'd rather ask this question upfront to all dispensationalists. But even if you believe it, I suppose we all make mistakes. Not-the-less, please tell me if you agree with this:

        For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God (Rom 2:28,29).

        Comment


        • #5
          Many opinions but not so many that are willing to defend them when challenged with questions and using scripture as it is written.
          Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

          When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense, else you get nonsense.

          I believe that God said what he meant and He means what He said.

          Comment


          • #6
            The actual sign of the devil is the hexagram or six pointed star. This star with its two interlocking triangles has 6 points, 6 smaller triangles and a 6 sided hexagon. So we see that the famous 666 is incorporated right into the design. This star is mentioned in the scriptures (Acts 7:42,43) as the star of Remphan which was the stargod of Saturn. Solomon not David is the one who introduced this star to Israel when he disobeyed the Lord and worshipped the foreign gods of Ashtoreth, Molech and Chemosh - 1Kings 11:5-8. Ashtoreth which means ‘a star’ in Hebrew is another variation of the stargod. Molech and Chemosh were also associated with Saturn the star of ill omen. The hexagram is used to hex people and has come to represent in our day the love of money, atheism and homosexuality which are all tools of the devil to destroy souls. The hexagram most truly represents the law of Moses which destroys more souls than anything else, hands down. Legalism is the worst killer of Christians because sinners cannot keep the law. Only the unmerited grace of Christ can appease the broken law of God. Trying to keep the law in the flesh destroys faith and once your faith is gone you belong to the devil forever.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
              Many opinions but not so many that are willing to defend them when challenged with questions and using scripture as it is written.
              As is plainly evident in your scripture-less posts.

              No scripture says that all of ethnic Israel; that is the Jewish people are to be saved and will eventually come to Jesus.
              Even less does the Bible say the Lord will take the church to heaven. Jesus said that such a thing was impossible. John 3:13

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HENOG View Post
                Rod.ney roby3 I don't want to assume the worst of people so I'd rather ask this question upfront to all dispensationalists. But even if you believe it, I suppose we all make mistakes. Not-the-less, please tell me if you agree with this:

                Absolutely not...

                I don't see how anyone can deny that Jesus claimed to be the Christ, but Hagee evidently does. It's a crazy assertion to say that Jesus didn't come to earth to be the Messiah... It's un-scriptural to say that the Jewish people did not reject Jesus as the Messiah. I do think it's true to say that there was a conspiracy between Rome, the Sanhedrin, and Herod to execute Jesus, but I'd be shocked if what I believe lines up with Hagee.

                No... Hagee in my opinion is easily set aside as no account, and I don't recognize anything he says within any dispensational authors I read.

                It's no wonder people disagree so adamantly with dispensationalism if this is what is attributed to it.

                Hope that helps,
                Dave

                Let not conscience make you linger
                Nor of fitness fondly dream
                All the fitness He requires
                Is to feel your need of Him

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dave View Post

                  Absolutely not...

                  I don't see how anyone can deny that Jesus claimed to be the Christ, but Hagee evidently does. It's a crazy assertion to say that Jesus didn't come to earth to be the Messiah... It's un-scriptural to say that the Jewish people did not reject Jesus as the Messiah. I do think it's true to say that there was a conspiracy between Rome, the Sanhedrin, and Herod to execute Jesus, but I'd be shocked if what I believe lines up with Hagee.

                  No... Hagee in my opinion is easily set aside as no account, and I don't recognize anything he says within any dispensational authors I read.

                  It's no wonder people disagree so adamantly with dispensationalism if this is what is attributed to it.

                  Hope that helps,
                  Dave
                  Did Hagee deny that Jesus claimed to be the Christ or, did he say that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah the first advent? Did the Jews expect the Messiah would come as their King and to restore Israel back to its prominence? So, did Jesus come as their Messiah or, did He come as the Lamb to save the world?

                  Did the Jewish people as a whole reject Jesus or was it the leadership that instigated a riot with some? How many thousands accepted Him as their Savior? Why were the leadership concerned that the populance would cause trouble if they knew what they were contemplating?

                  I am about as fundimental, penticostal and conservative in my theology as one can get and have listened to Hagee for years and in my opinion he interpets scripture literally as any pastor that I have heard or read.

                  Hagee is pro Israel, pro Jesus Christ, pro scripture as it is written and to make judgement of him using a clip of a few seconds is unfair in my opinion.
                  Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

                  When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense, else you get nonsense.

                  I believe that God said what he meant and He means what He said.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post

                    Did Hagee deny that Jesus claimed to be the Christ or, did he say that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah the first advent? Did the Jews expect the Messiah would come as their King and to restore Israel back to its prominence? So, did Jesus come as their Messiah or, did He come as the Lamb to save the world?

                    Did the Jewish people as a whole reject Jesus or was it the leadership that instigated a riot with some? How many thousands accepted Him as their Savior? Why were the leadership concerned that the populance would cause trouble if they knew what they were contemplating?

                    I am about as fundimental, penticostal and conservative in my theology as one can get and have listened to Hagee for years and in my opinion he interpets scripture literally as any pastor that I have heard or read.

                    Hagee is pro Israel, pro Jesus Christ, pro scripture as it is written and to make judgement of him using a clip of a few seconds is unfair in my opinion.
                    No wonder you're so messed up! Hagee and all those like him will eventually convert to Judaism.

                    The is no Christ in Judaism! There is no grace in Judaism! There is no gospel in Judaism!

                    The Jews are not stupid and they actually use people like Hagee to get Christians to fall from grace.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nola369 View Post

                      No wonder you're so messed up! Hagee and all those like him will eventually convert to Judaism.

                      The is no Christ in Judaism! There is no grace in Judaism! There is no gospel in Judaism!

                      The Jews are not stupid and they actually use people like Hagee to get Christians to fall from grace.

                      Cannot answer questions, cannot prove your ludicrous accusations, par for the course.
                      Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

                      When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense, else you get nonsense.

                      I believe that God said what he meant and He means what He said.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by keras View Post

                        As is plainly evident in your scripture-less posts.

                        No scripture says that all of ethnic Israel; that is the Jewish people are to be saved and will eventually come to Jesus.
                        Even less does the Bible say the Lord will take the church to heaven. Jesus said that such a thing was impossible. John 3:13
                        I would be happy to engage you in a chapter-by-chapter, verse-by-verse and word-by-word discussion of the subject, IF, you would be willing to answer every question that I may ask using scripture just as it is written supporting your answers just as I am willing to do, what say you?

                        BTW, I agree with much of your writings but even great Bible scholars can be wrong at times, would you agree?
                        Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

                        When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense, else you get nonsense.

                        I believe that God said what he meant and He means what He said.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post

                          Cannot answer questions, cannot prove your ludicrous accusations, par for the course.
                          The Jews are required to convert to Christianity and in the Catholic and Orthodox faiths there are many Jewish converts.

                          But then we have people like Hagee who basically teach that Christians should convert to Judaism which is heresy.

                          The Protestant faith just in my lifetime has fallen so far from the mainstream that they have morphed into messianic judaism.

                          When I was growing up you didn't see the things like you see today and the blame falls on dispensationals with their corrupt gospel.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nola369 View Post

                            The Jews are required to convert to Christianity and in the Catholic and Orthodox faiths there are many Jewish converts.

                            But then we have people like Hagee who basically teach that Christians should convert to Judaism which is heresy.

                            The Protestant faith just in my lifetime has fallen so far from the mainstream that they have morphed into messianic judaism.

                            When I was growing up you didn't see the things like you see today and the blame falls on dispensationals with their corrupt gospel.
                            Too bad there is not some type of consequences for those that spew out blantantly false accusations. Something that God had much to say about and it is not complimentary.
                            Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

                            When plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense, else you get nonsense.

                            I believe that God said what he meant and He means what He said.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post

                              Too bad there is not some type of consequences for those that spew out blantantly false accusations. Something that God had much to say about and it is not complimentary.
                              John Hagee is a clown and only clowns like you follow that tool of the devil.

                              Comment

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