Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Did Christ's Sacrifice Change the Fate of Non Believers?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Did Christ's Sacrifice Change the Fate of Non Believers?

    I have stumbled upon this idea that, because the wages of sin is death and Jesus defeated death on the cross, non believers fate changed from simply death (defined as the cessation of life) to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

    What sayest you?
    Salvation belongs to God

  • #2
    Bump
    Salvation belongs to God

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post
      I have stumbled upon this idea that, because the wages of sin is death and Jesus defeated death on the cross, non believers fate changed from simply death (defined as the cessation of life) to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

      What sayest you?
      Eye sayeth thou canst not speake in the proper vernacular of the daye.

      That said, the answer is simple. . .before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ on the cross, those who were NOT God-believers STILL ended in the eternal torment in the lake of fire. No place in the bible says they ever died and ceased to exist.


      Rom 1:20-21
      20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
      NKJV


      God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

      I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Morefish View Post
        Eye sayeth thou canst not speake in the proper vernacular of the daye.
        Well said!

        That said, the answer is simple. . .before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ on the cross, those who were NOT God-believers STILL ended in the eternal torment in the lake of fire. No place in the bible says they ever died and ceased to exist.
        Possibly, though I not convinced that is what the people of the day believed. It was only until the "gospel" was introduced (I would argue quite a bit later, actually) that the idea of a conscious afterlife was taught. Prior to this, the primary term was "sleep," and did not imply a conscious state. Another hint would be 1 Cor 15 where we learn that, while all die in Adam, all receive life in Christ. (Though each in their own order.) It was not until his resurrection that even the possibility of post death consciousness was feasible.

        I have spoken to a few who prefer to rearrange the words of this passage to imply that only those "in Adam" or "in Christ" are affected by each statement, but that is on their own conscience to reword god (Paul) to fit their dogma.

        Rom 1:20-21
        20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
        NKJV
        This is a good example of a passage to apply the "follow the pronouns" methodoligy of understanding who is being addressed.

        "Rom. 118 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, "

        Paul is not speaking here to the entire world as the entire world was not given the truth. One cannot supress a truth one was never given. He is speaking to his people.
        Last edited by Bluemayskye; 06-15-18, 04:10 AM.
        Salvation belongs to God

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post
          I have stumbled upon this idea that, because the wages of sin is death and Jesus defeated death on the cross, non believers fate changed from simply death (defined as the cessation of life) to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

          What sayest you?
          The fate of the nonbeliever has never changed. Those who did not live godly lives before Christ are still sitting in Hades awaiting judgment and would still by God's foreknowledge been cast into the lake of fire.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post

            The fate of the nonbeliever has never changed. Those who did not live godly lives before Christ are still sitting in Hades awaiting judgment and would still by God's foreknowledge been cast into the lake of fire.
            At the very least, the narrative changed following NT events. No one prior to AD church writings believed anyone lived after death.
            Salvation belongs to God

            Comment

            Working...
            X