Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

West and Hort texts from 100 AD

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • West and Hort texts from 100 AD

    This is meant as a "light heated" attempt to help reveal a rather serious problem in KJVO circles as pertains the actually presenting and collection of verifiable evidence.

    I would like to say that someone told me..... that someone told them.... that they actually knew someone that was friends with Hort and Westcott...... and they have evidence to prove that Westcott and Hort were in possession of texts of the Greek NT that date back to 100 AD. These "priceless" texts were the actually bases for their critical Greek text.

    They were so priceless and rare that they couldn't possibly actually share them with anyone. No one has ever seen them and no one has ever even handled them but trust me....

    I know the person that told me this and I trust them.....

    This is pretty much the exact same kind of rethoric you get from KJVOist when you ask them for historical proof for their claims. Like "bigboys" recent claims that the there is evidence a particular church was formed in 120 AD that helped "preserve" the true line of texts that form the translation of the KJV....

    Translations...... I have no real evidence thus I must rely on conjecture to make my point.... Just don't be "critical". I trust my source.

  • #2
    We are indebted to Beza, the renowned associate of Calvin, for the statement that the Italic Church dates from 120 A. D. From the illustrious group of scholars which gathered around Beza, 1590 A. D., we may understand how the Received Text was the bond of union between great historic churches.
    No conviction,No conversion
    John 16:8
    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
      We are indebted to Beza, the renowned associate of Calvin, for the statement that the Italic Church dates from 120 A. D. From the illustrious group of scholars which gathered around Beza, 1590 A. D., we may understand how the Received Text was the bond of union between great historic churches.
      Beza liked in the 16th century. How can a man that lived in the 16th century know such a thing?

      Comment


      • #4
        Ask him.
        No conviction,No conversion
        John 16:8
        And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
          Ask him.
          I'm amazed that you accept his words without know anything of why he said it?

          Why?

          Comment


          • #6
            There the Jesuits, assisted by Rome and backed by all the power of Spain, brought forth an English translation of the Vulgate.

            In its preface they expressly declared that the Vulgate had been translated in 1300 into Italian and in 1400 into French, "the sooner to shake out of the deceived people's hands, the false heretical translations of a sect called Waldenses."


            This proves that Waldensian Versions existed in 1300 and 1400. It was the Vulgate, Rome's corrupt Scriptures against the Received Text--the New Testament of the apostles, of the Waldenses, and of the Reformers.

            That Rome in early days corrupted the manuscripts while the Italic Church handed them down in their apostolic purity, Allix, the renowned scholar, testifies.

            He reports the following as Italic articles of faith: "They receive only, saith he, what is written in the Old and New Testament. They say, that the Popes of Rome, and other priests, have depraved the Scriptures by their doctrines and glosses." (Allix, Churches of Piedmont, pp. 288, 11.)
            No conviction,No conversion
            John 16:8
            And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
              There the Jesuits, assisted by Rome and backed by all the power of Spain, brought forth an English translation of the Vulgate.

              In its preface they expressly declared that the Vulgate had been translated in 1300 into Italian and in 1400 into French, "the sooner to shake out of the deceived people's hands, the false heretical translations of a sect called Waldenses."


              This proves that Waldensian Versions existed in 1300 and 1400. It was the Vulgate, Rome's corrupt Scriptures against the Received Text--the New Testament of the apostles, of the Waldenses, and of the Reformers.

              That Rome in early days corrupted the manuscripts while the Italic Church handed them down in their apostolic purity, Allix, the renowned scholar, testifies.

              He reports the following as Italic articles of faith: "They receive only, saith he, what is written in the Old and New Testament. They say, that the Popes of Rome, and other priests, have depraved the Scriptures by their doctrines and glosses." (Allix, Churches of Piedmont, pp. 288, 11.)
              Simple question. Where is this "English translation of the Vulgate"? I'd like to review its preface.

              Comment


              • #8
                Readers need the book., yes they do !
                No conviction,No conversion
                John 16:8
                And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
                  Readers need the book., yes they do !
                  You obviously don't have it. Why are you recommending something you don't have?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You are so wrong.
                    No conviction,No conversion
                    John 16:8
                    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
                      You are so wrong.
                      So you do have it? Is it free or copyrighted like the KJV?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                        Simple question. Where is this "English translation of the Vulgate"? I'd like to review its preface.
                        Do you think Christians who cannot read Greek or Hebrew cannot know the Word of God?
                        I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                        If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                        For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by marke View Post

                          Do you think Christians who cannot read Greek or Hebrew cannot know the Word of God?
                          Sure. They can get a LXX text and a Koine Greek dictionary and learn much.

                          Nothing different than what you do now. Do you use a dictionary to know what some of those archaic words mean in your KJV?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                            Sure. They can get a LXX text and a Koine Greek dictionary and learn much.

                            Nothing different than what you do now. Do you use a dictionary to know what some of those archaic words mean in your KJV?
                            So, kids cannot read the Bible yet? They must be trained in ancient languages and must read God's Word in ancient languages? How about if the ones with learning abilities just find themselves a priest who can tell them what God said in common, easily understandable words?
                            I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                            If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                            For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by marke View Post

                              So, kids cannot read the Bible yet? They must be trained in ancient languages and must read God's Word in ancient languages? How about if the ones with learning abilities just find themselves a priest who can tell them what God said in common, easily understandable words?
                              Sure they can. Sure they can be trained. In fact, its better if they start early. There are plenty of documents that can help them. They can use a dictionary like you use a dictionary to understand the archiac words of the KJV.

                              How much time do you spend teaching kids about your KJV fallacy?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X