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The ONE QUESTION that stumps every KJVO!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

    Is your question based on an presumptuous sin that merely presumes or assume your question's underlying premises to be supposedly true by use of fallacies?
    The problem as I see it, is that you cannot provide a single verse (or in your case, a single reference because you can quote anyone but God) that supports your view of the scriptures. You say you believe the original language manuscripts are inspired but where do you find that? You don't. If you would like I will begin a new thread with the question and give you two weeks to find one answer. You people who oppose us are being hypocritical when you accuse KJV believers of something you are guilty of .
    I once asked this of a Calvinist evangelist;
    Is it possible for an elect person ever to die lost and is it possible for a non elect person ever to be saved and he answered "no" to both questions.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post


      Are you both affirming that you are not seeking the book of the Lord?
      You're ignoring what I wrote. Nothing but your silly attempt to ignore the truth. Isa 34:16 has nothing to do with the KJV. Those words are found in multiple editions of which the KJV is mistaken filled example.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by JDS View Post

        The problem as I see it, is that you cannot provide a single verse (or in your case, a single reference because you can quote anyone but God) that supports your view of the scriptures. You say you believe the original language manuscripts are inspired but where do you find that? You don't. If you would like I will begin a new thread with the question and give you two weeks to find one answer. You people who oppose us are being hypocritical when you accuse KJV believers of something you are guilty of .
        Do your comments in effect show that KJV-only advocates are being hypocritical when they accuse Bible-believers who disagree with non-scriptural KJV-only opinions of something of which they themselves are guilty? You do not answer questions that you are asked while you make demands to others so you do not practice what you preach. Your comments show that you do not see clearly and justly. Your own human, non-scriptural, extra-biblical KJV-only reasoning that involves use of fallacies and use of unscriptural, unjust measures [double standards] may have blinded you.

        KJV-only advocates have not presented any positive, clear, consistent, sound, just, true, scriptural case for their own unproven KJV-only claims so you do not do what you ask.

        I have presented my scripturally-based view of the Scriptures in many posts, and you have avoided discussing what I have actually stated. I have cited or quoted many verses from the KJV in my posts. You have not discussed nor refuted the scriptural truths and scripturally-based points that I have presented.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

          Do your comments in effect show that KJV-only advocates are being hypocritical when they accuse Bible-believers who disagree with non-scriptural KJV-only opinions of something of which they themselves are guilty? You do not answer questions that you are asked while you make demands to others so you do not practice what you preach. Your comments show that you do not see clearly and justly. Your own human, non-scriptural, extra-biblical KJV-only reasoning that involves use of fallacies and use of unscriptural, unjust measures [double standards] may have blinded you.

          KJV-only advocates have not presented any positive, clear, consistent, sound, just, true, scriptural case for their own unproven KJV-only claims so you do not do what you ask.

          I have presented my scripturally-based view of the Scriptures in many posts, and you have avoided discussing what I have actually stated. I have cited or quoted many verses from the KJV in my posts. You have not discussed nor refuted the scriptural truths and scripturally-based points that I have presented.
          You are so confused. I, or no ther KJV believer, has any issues with your free will decision to promote any bible that you like. This forum here exists for the express purpose of freedom readers attacks on those of us who believe God can and did preserve his truths in a translation. This forum is owned by a freedom reader and he could have named the forum something like Bible Translations. To suggest that we must answer your questions why we believe God is arrogance on your part. I am not the attacker, I am the atackee. I have no obligation to answer your questions. You have the burden to defend your position as being correct.

          As a KJV believer I have never initiated an argument for my position on any public forum and I comment here in response to your vicious attacks at my own pleasure and not because I am compelled by anyone. If I engage a Russellite about his false doctrine I will do it by comparing it to sound bible doctrines. Your argument against the KJV only position is certainly not a biblical argument. You have quoted heretics who would not even recognize a bible argument if it slapped them in the face.
          I once asked this of a Calvinist evangelist;
          Is it possible for an elect person ever to die lost and is it possible for a non elect person ever to be saved and he answered "no" to both questions.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            You are so confused.
            Actually the poster you accuse here is very knowledgeable regarding the KJV, it's origins, and it's problems.


            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            I, or no other KJV believer, has any issues with your free will decision to promote any bible that you like.
            Fact is, JD, there are KJVOs who claim one cannot be saved without the KJV. That is simple a false statement. And you saying no other KJV believer has any issues is simply, whether through ignorance or design, false.

            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            This forum here exists for the express purpose of freedom readers attacks on those of us who believe God can and did preserve his truths in a translation.
            Wrong again! This forum exists so the pros and cons of King James ONLYISM can be intelligently [or otherwise] discussed.

            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            This forum is owned by a freedom reader and he could have named the forum something like Bible Translations. To suggest that we must answer your questions why we believe God is arrogance on your part. I am not the attacker, I am the atackee.
            However and whatever you "believe God" about, King James ONLYISM cannot be one of them until and unless you can quote Scripture in support of that ONLY part!

            When someone makes a claim or an accusation they have obligated themselves to defend that accusation and/or claim with historical documented facts.

            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            I have no obligation to answer your questions. You have the burden to defend your position as being correct.
            And you have the same obligation, JD.

            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            As a KJV believer I have never initiated an argument for my position on any public forum and I comment here in response to your vicious attacks at my own pleasure and not because I am compelled by anyone.
            You do have the freedom to run and hide anytime you wish. And others have the freedom of knowing you ran and hid if that is what you did. If you're not prepared to engage in discussion why are you posting on a discussion board?????????

            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            If I engage a Russellite about his false doctrine I will do it by comparing it to sound bible doctrines.
            King James ONLYISM is not a sound Biblical doctrine!! If it was the KJVOs here would have posted Scripture supporting King James ONLYSIM, but NEITHER YOU NOR ANY OTHER KJVO HAS DONE SO ALL THESE YEARS DESPITE HAVING BEEN ASKED TO DO SO MANY TIMES!!

            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            Your argument against the KJV only position is certainly not a biblical argument.
            Actually it is. We have shown you translational errors in the KJV that have been corrected by today's great translations. Even one corrected error blows the false doctrine known as King James ONLYISM out of the water and half way to the moon!!

            Originally posted by JDS View Post
            You have quoted heretics who would not even recognize a bible argument if it slapped them in the face.

            That from one who has yet to make a "Bible argument" for King James ONLYISM?
            Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Trucker View Post

              Actually the poster you accuse here is very knowledgeable regarding the KJV, it's origins, and it's problems.
              There are no problems, only misunderstanding of the text.


              Fact is, JD, there are KJVOs who claim one cannot be saved without the KJV. That is simple a false statement.
              The nature of deception is to include leaven with the truth, so none may be absolutely sure what God really said or meant to say.
              1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

              Comment


              • #37
                [QUOTE=PeanutGallery;n5255532]
                Originally posted by Trucker View Post
                Actually the poster you accuse here is very knowledgeable regarding the KJV, it's origins, and it's problems.
                There are no problems, only misunderstanding of the text.

                Experience by either the translators of the KJV or the final editor[s], or due to the inferior TR!! The refusal of the KJVOs to admit the errors does not eliminate the errors.

                Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
                The nature of deception is to include leaven with the truth, so none may be absolutely sure what God really said or meant to say.
                Yeah ... leaven such as Easter [Acts 12:4, KJV], Lucifer [Isaiah 14:12, KJV] and God forbid [Romans 3:4 and several additional places in Paul's writings!There is no Greek word for God underlying the "God forbid"!! And NO ... the KJV does not correct God's inspired words as preserved in the original language manuscripts!
                Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
                  There are no problems, only misunderstanding of the text.
                  No problems? Really?

                  Rev. 16:5 (KJV) And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus

                  ---Please tell everyone how many Greek manuscripts have the reading in bold? If you're unsure, I'll give you a multiple choice.

                  A) About 1,000

                  B) About 100

                  C) About 10

                  D) Zero

                  Here's a clue to the answer: the following are the Geneva Bible and Tyndale's NT translations (also based on, slightly different, TRs).

                  Rev. 16:5 (Geneva Bible - modernised spellings) And I heard the Angel of the waters say, Lord, thou art just, Which art, and Which wast, and Holy, because thou hast judged these things.

                  Rev. 16:5 (Tyndale's NT - modernised spellings) And I heard an angel say: Lord which art and wast, thou art righteous and holy, because thou hast given such judgements,

                  Here's another clue: the following is a modern translation, based on the Majority Text.

                  Rev. 16:5 (EMTV) And I heard the angel of the waters saying: "You are righteous, the One who is, and who was, holy, because You have judged these things;

                  I'll put you out of your misery: the answer is D)! Yes, that's right, there is not even one Greek manuscript that has the KJV reading, at that point, in Rev. 16:5. It was an emendation by Beza, on the basis of, well, no evidence at all, except his opinion.
                  John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by David1701 View Post
                    ...
                    I'll put you out of your misery: the answer is D)! Yes, that's right, there is not even one Greek manuscript that has the KJV reading, at that point, in Rev. 16:5. It was an emendation by Beza, on the basis of, well, no evidence at all, except his opinion.
                    Or, God personally preserving his inspired word.
                    1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
                      Or, God personally preserving his inspired word.
                      He did ... in the original language manuscripts!! Not in Latin! Not English!!

                      His inspired word was in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek!
                      Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Trucker View Post

                        He did ... in the original language manuscripts!! Not in Latin! Not English!!

                        His inspired word was in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek!
                        Poof; they no longer exist, so much for God preserving his inspired word.
                        1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Trucker View Post

                          He did ... in the original language manuscripts!! Not in Latin! Not English!!

                          His inspired word was in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek!
                          If God did it it would be perfectly preserved, right?
                          I once asked this of a Calvinist evangelist;
                          Is it possible for an elect person ever to die lost and is it possible for a non elect person ever to be saved and he answered "no" to both questions.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JDS View Post
                            Originally posted by Trucker View Post
                            He did ... in the original language manuscripts!! Not in Latin! Not English!!

                            His inspired word was in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek!
                            If God did it it would be perfectly preserved, right?
                            Which is one reason we know God did not translate or preserve the KJV, JD.

                            And, just in case you think you have a "gotcha" there, no two manuscripts agree 100%. God left it up to good Christians to sort it out. We have thousands more far older, and far better manuscripts to work from today than were used to create the Textus Receptus. Plus, the KJV is not even true to the Textus Receptus!!!

                            Also, neither of the Psalm 12:6-7 or 2 Timothy 3:16 passages do anything to support King James ONLYISM, King James superiority, and so on and on.
                            Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Trucker View Post

                              .... God left it up to good Christians to sort it out.
                              And is it the same Christian gurus who turn out a myriad of various inconsistent translations?
                              1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JDS View Post
                                Your argument against the KJV only position is certainly not a biblical argument.
                                Your opinion is not correct. You dodge or avoid the scripturally-based arguments against the non-scriptural KJV-only theory.

                                A sound, just application of scriptural truths provide sound evidence against the modern, man-made, non-scriptural, extra-biblical KJV-only position.



                                Comment

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