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The ONE QUESTION that stumps every KJVO! NEW version

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  • The ONE QUESTION that stumps every KJVO! NEW version

    The OLD will be closed, and this is the NEW will be here
    I am attempting to pick it up where the format went bonkers


    06-01-18, 06:48 AM
    Originally posted by john t View Post
    It is you, who are creating diversions, and attempting to ignore facts. More to the point is that you are OBJECTIFYING us (by calling people INACCURATE and INFLAMMATORY names.)
    1. ZERO of us who do not hold your position are "against the KJV Bible". That is a misrepresentation of our position, and ZERO of us ever said that.
    You use the word "us" as though you and all the opponents of the KJV are on the same page in all aspects. I have not found that to be true.


    Time and time again, we state that we are uniformly against KJV ONLYISM. You seem not to understand that distinction.

    Marke
    Some oppose the KJV in opposition to KJVO. I oppose neither the KJV Bible nor those who believe the Bible is an excellent translation of the Word of God.

    By not understanding that CRITICAL difference your posts muddy the waters and erroneously make fallacious and condescending statements like "The KJVO myth is a myth " https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...40#post5297140
    marke ]I was responding to a KJV critic who first called KJVO a myth
    .



    john t
    I could say more, but I'll not go there. My point remains proved that all of these are mere diversions to the FACTS. NEWER DISCOVERED and thus OLDER MANUSCRIPTS etc are now available when the Textus Receptus (Stephanus of 1550) was written. A refusal to admit that they exist is akin to believing in a flat earth.
    marke
    ​​​​​​​I do not agree with the assumption that little used manuscripts survived longer because they were "better."
    I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

    If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

    For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

  • #2
    Next post

    06-01-18, 10:49 AM
    John t
    Time and time again, we state that we are uniformly against KJV ONLYISM. You seem not to understand that distinction.
    Marke
    Some oppose the KJV in opposition to KJVO. I oppose neither the KJV Bible nor those who believe the Bible is an excellent translation of the Word of God.
    You are invited to demonstrate that as a fact by providing a quote from SOMEONE ON THIS THREAD who is against the King James version of the Bible in the same manner as the KJVO ists are against modern versions
    john t
    By not understanding that CRITICAL difference your posts muddy the waters and erroneously make fallacious and condescending statements like "The KJVO myth is a myth " https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...40#post5297140
    marke
    I was responding to a KJV critic who first called KJVO a myth.
    On that part, I stand corrected

    In that post you stated this, to which I agree:
    Whether KJVO or not there is nothing wrong with people favoring the KJV over other versions.
    But you also added this:
    Marke
    The term "KJVO" is a hodge-podge of ideas loosely gathered under the catch-all title. Saying an idea is wrong just because some people criticize it as supposedly being "KJVO false doctrine" is not proving an idea to be false doctrine. If the idea is wrong then Bible scholars do well to dismiss it with argument and reason instead of blind unsupported prejudice.
    Absolutely none of those rejecting the KJVO theory reject it on the basis of doctrine as you allege. That is both fanciful and false. It is also a RED HERRING meaning something that is distracting to the core issue of the facts about many ancient manuscripts existing.

    You raised the issues of scholars, and that is precisely the point that many of the KJVO ist people FAIL to recognize. People in that camp have been presented with work by scholars, presented by some posters with graduate degrees having access to academic-level sources, and y'all dismiss those indisputable FACTS as merely "opinion" and "prejudice". There are several terms for that, and some of them are "pontificating ignorance" and "foolishness"

    Here is an example of that:

    john t
    My point remains proved that all of these are mere diversions to the FACTS. NEWER DISCOVERED and thus OLDER MANUSCRIPTS etc are now available when the Textus Receptus (Stephanus of 1550) was written. A refusal to admit that they exist is akin to believing in a flat earth.
    Marke
    I do not agree with the assumption that little used manuscripts survived longer because they were "better."
    Notice that it is YOU who introduced the terms "little used" and "better", not me. It is also a RED HERRING meaning something that is distracting to the core issue of the facts.

    But ALSO notice that you utterly dismiss them out of hand based upon YOUR OWN PREJUDICE, and having ZERO to do with your plea for scholars to dismiss the KJVO myth. They have, but those in the KJVO camp have not heeded the scholars, so the fault does not lie with those who are against the false KJVO theory

    Your objections have been met many times. That many of the KJVOists refuse to look at facts, is not the fault of those who are presenting academic-level facts

    Comment


    • #3
      next post by Trucker
      Over a period of many years it has repeatedly made unmistakable clear that the issue here is not the KJV per se. The issue here is the false, man made, un-Scriptural, ahisoric, and illogical doctrine known as King James ONLYISM. It would be immensely helpful if some here could get that fact straight and thus not be constantly trying to insert a straw man diversion into the discussion.

      Comment


      • #4
        By Roby3

        06-02-18, 08:58 AM
        I'm the one who calls the KJVO myth a "myth"

        Why?

        Because one of the meanings of the word 'myth' is "any INVENTED story, idea, or concept". And KJVO fills that bell precisely!





        KJVOs still stumped! Hence, no KJVO replies!

        Comment


        • #5
          BY Shoonra

          06-05-18, 03:41 AM
          I must admit that I do not know WHY the KJV gets designated the one and only God-approved (even God-written) version of the Bible. If we cannot tolerate more than one God-approved Bible in existence at a time, why is it the KJV, instead of the RSV or the TEV or something else?

          If the KJV was supposed to be God-approved, is it the one and only God-approved Bible on all the earth for all languages ... I ask because there are places where the the KJV differs from Luther's German Bibel, and supposedly they cannot both be right.

          But it's a bit hard to say that that the KJV is the KJV is perfect because it has a few little flaws here and there - for example, in the KJV Apocrypha, in Second Esdras, its missing 70 verses, which appear in some other Latin manuscripts, because it relied on manuscripts copied from the Codex Sangermanensis, from which a page had been torn out. That's a pretty significant flaw. The missing verses were restored by the RV in 1885.

          Comment


          • #6
            By John t

            06-05-18, 11:22 AM
            @Shoonra

            The reason has nothing to do with fact
            . instead it is emotional-based

            When presented with the facts of things, the KJVO adherents have a knee-jerk reaction, morph the facts into a personal attack on themselves, and reply with ad hominems, and non-logic. A brief look at other threads here will confirm that statement.

            You must see that there is really no defense to the irrational, and when the boogey-man of facts will not go away, the only recourse one has is to sulk in silence and silently curse those who dare to provide the answers to the wrong teachings you have heard from trusted-but-uneducated preachers. It seems to me, that many of the KJVO people are uneducated also, and have a disdain and suspicion for those who went beyond high school.

            Comment


            • #7
              By Roby 3

              06-06-18, 03:26 AM
              Whether one wants to admit it or not, most of the English-speaking world was & is under the influence of the British. We use British language, & many other british mannerisms. And Britain promoted the KJV for a good while, suppressing the publishing or sale of any other English Bible translation, til the KJV was virtually the only English Bible translation available to English readers. That influence carried over after the prohibition against other English versions was eliminated. After all, the KJV is a pretty good translation.

              But some men got it in their heads that the KJV was the ONLY valid English Bible translation, & so started the KJVO myth. I believe this was due to Satan's influence over some of his minions. Satan has two purposes for the KJVO myth: to create strife among Christians & to cast doubt upon God's word, and that myth has served both those purposes well. Unfortunately, most KJVOs won't research the real meanings of the KJVO myth, its lack of facts, its lack of Scriptural support, nor bother to discover its origin.


              06-11-18, 02:39 AM
              I'm sure you've noticed the lack of response by any KJVOs to the fact of a total absence of authority and Scriptural support for the KJVO myth. they're hoping this thread and the question will go away if they avoid it long enough by silence. BUT IT WON'T! It'll rise up to haunt them every time they speak out in favor of the lie of the KJVO myth.

              Comment


              • #8
                Still, NO KJVO responses to the question in the OP of the original thread! VERY TELLING about the lacka veracity of the KJVO myth!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just to clarify (if only for myself) the One Question (which somehow was not repeated in the lead entry on this new thread) is (repeated from the old thread), You're welcome:

                  roby3 started a topic The ONE QUESTION that stumps every KJVO!
                  05-04-18, 03:31 PM
                  There's one question a Freedom reader can ask any KJVO, & he/she will be stumped, stymied, stuttering, not DARE answering it CORRECTLY. That question is:

                  BY WHAT AUTHORITY do you believe and preach the KJVO myth???????????? It's not found in Scripture whatsoever, so it CANNOT be true!

                  The CORRECT answer completely quashes the KJVO myth! That answer is either NONE, or SOME OTHER PERSON'S AUTHORITY.

                  So, KJVOs, you have NO EXCUSE to believe or preach the KJVO myth!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Correctly, you have used the "argument from silence". CONGRATS!

                    Logically speaking, silence on an issue can only prove silence on THAT issue. It is akin to saying, "that empty box over there proves that the box is empty". Just like silence, the empty box is a negative statement. Can you follow that? It is a negative statement because the box contains nothing other than air, but those who do not understand that principle say in effect, "That empty box proves that it is full of cookies" That the box is "full of cookies" is a positive statement, meaning that the empty box has contents. That is why a negative can never prove a positive. It can only confirm a negative, or the absence of content, in this case, cookies

                    For sure, the KJVOists cannot do that. They see that the box is empty, but go off into flights of fantasy and ad hominems in order to escape from the fact that there is no evidence for their logically-lost cause. Their retorts go something like this (and on the same level, 3rd grade) : "That empty box over there proves that you have cooties."

                    BTW since only the posts with the messed-up format were restored here, and the old post remains visible, not deleted, but closed. it seems likely and reasonable that is the reason why just a few were moved.
                    MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

                    1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

                    2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

                    3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

                    4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







                    Comment


                    • #11
                      maybe this will help
                      @PeanutGallery
                      @Trucker
                      @logos1560
                      @cisco qid
                      @AWANA
                      @praise_yeshua
                      @Beloved Daughter
                      @JDS
                      @David1701
                      @
                      @

                      The old thread was closed (see mod notes on top)
                      You can cut and paste from the old by going here https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...ery-kjvo/page3 or post new things.

                      See what a nice guy I am!
                      MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

                      1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

                      2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

                      3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

                      4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Still. NO KJVO RESPONSE!

                        I believe this one question effectively silences the KJVOs from spreading their garbage, as its CORRECT answer proves their KJVO doctrine false.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by john t View Post
                          Correctly, you have used the "argument from silence". CONGRATS!

                          Logically speaking, silence on an issue can only prove silence on THAT issue. It is akin to saying, "that empty box over there proves that the box is empty". Just like silence, the empty box is a negative statement. Can you follow that? It is a negative statement because the box contains nothing other than air, but those who do not understand that principle say in effect, "That empty box proves that it is full of cookies" That the box is "full of cookies" is a positive statement, meaning that the empty box has contents. That is why a negative can never prove a positive. It can only confirm a negative, or the absence of content, in this case, cookies
                          Originally posted by roby3 View Post
                          Still. NO KJVO RESPONSE!
                          You have used the "argument from silence". CONGRATS!

                          1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post


                            You have used the "argument from silence". CONGRATS!
                            You would do well to look up the meaning of an unfamiliar term before you ise it incorrectly.

                            That you or anyone may be silent on the issue of the KJVO (as another poster suggests) does not fit the definition of the term
                            MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

                            1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

                            2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

                            3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

                            4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post


                              You have used the "argument from silence". CONGRATS!
                              If the KJVOs, including YOU, had any correct answer to my question that didn't destroy their KJVO myth, they'da published it 50 years ago!

                              OF COURSE you KJVOs are silent when it comesta answering my question cuz you're CLUELESS about howta answer it & still defend your myth.

                              Comment

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