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As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

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  • Originally posted by Beloved Daughter View Post

    Videos can be informative. They are also used to promote dangerous ideologies. The Flat earthers use video almost exclusively and have many followers.

    The Catholic Church is dead because the gates of Hell have prevailed against them. They live in greed, darkness, hatred, sexual deviancy, etc. (I could go on all day).

    Your video fails. A few nut cases making a video does not constitute truth in any form. And. . . more importantly it has absolutely nothing to do with the King James Bible. This entire thread is simply a diversion.

    Here is a video for you.

    BD, I was not impressed with that video. The regurgitated mantra of man made bloviating opinions in that video was neither convincing, nor informative. I see it as promoting the same dangerous ideologies discussed on the "Critique" thread:

    https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...08#post5783708
    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15
    __________________
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    • Originally posted by logos1560 View Post
      This poster will not define and explain his meaning for the term "the Holy Bible," but his title for this thread affirms that he uses it only for the 1611 KJV.

      Is use of an undefined term like using a code word for those who also accept the same modern, non-scriptural teaching concerning the KJV?

      If the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV is a revision were not also Holy Bibles, the 1611 KJV based on them could not be a Holy Bible since qualities not found in the pre-1611 English Bibles could not be transferred to a revision of them.

      Is the 1582 Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament considered a Holy Bible since the Church of England makers of the KJV borrowed many renderings from it?

      A jaegar is the name of a genus of predatory or rapacious seabirds which purse and force weaker birds to leave or give up their prey so they can take it.

      A jaegar is also a German name for a hunter.
      From Merriam's Dictionary: jaeger

      noun jae​ger | \ ˈy-gər


      \


      Definition of jaeger

      1a : hunter, huntsman
      b : one attending a person of rank or wealth and wearing hunter's costume

      2 : any of several large dark-colored birds (genus Stercorarius) of northern seas that are related to the skua, are strong fliers, and tend to harass weaker birds until they drop or disgorge their prey


      jaeger

      noun jae​ger | \ ˈy-gər


      \


      Definition of jaeger

      1a : hunter, huntsman
      b : one attending a person of rank or wealth and wearing hunter's costume

      2 : any of several large dark-colored birds (genus Stercorarius) of northern seas that are related to the skua, are strong fliers, and tend to harass weaker birds until they drop or disgorge their prey


      First Known Use of jaeger

      1781, in the meaning defined at sense 1a
      History and Etymology for jaeger

      German Jger


      Thank you for bringing attention to my name and screen name. I am certain that you are quite aware that I brought attention your screen name in a post on the "Critique" thread:

      https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...08#post5783708
      Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15
      __________________
      Don't be Bible DECEIVED Get a KJB 1611 Today!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by logos1560 View Post
        This poster will not define and explain his meaning for the term "the Holy Bible," but his title for this thread affirms that he uses it only for the 1611 KJV.

        Is use of an undefined term like using a code word for those who also accept the same modern, non-scriptural teaching concerning the KJV?

        If the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV is a revision were not also Holy Bibles, the 1611 KJV based on them could not be a Holy Bible since qualities not found in the pre-1611 English Bibles could not be transferred to a revision of them.

        Is the 1582 Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament considered a Holy Bible since the Church of England makers of the KJV borrowed many renderings from it?

        A jaegar is the name of a genus of predatory or rapacious seabirds which purse and force weaker birds to leave or give up their prey so they can take it.

        A jaegar is also a German name for a hunter.
        From Merriam - Webster Dictionary:

        jaeger

        noun

        jae​ger | \ ˈy-gər

        Definition of jaeger

        1a : hunter, huntsman
        b : one attending a person of rank or wealth and wearing hunter's costume

        2 : any of several large dark-colored birds (genus Stercorarius) of northern seas that are related to the skua, are strong fliers, and tend to harass weaker birds until they drop or disgorge their prey


        First Known Use of jaeger

        1781, in the meaning defined at sense 1a
        History and Etymology for jaeger

        German Jger


        Thank you for bringing attention to my name and screen name. I am certain that you are quite aware that I brought attention your screen name in a post on the "Critique" thread:

        https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...08#post5783708
        Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15
        __________________
        Don't be Bible DECEIVED Get a KJB 1611 Today!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

          The general name "the Holy Bible" does not identify to what English Bible you refer. From reading your posts and your title of this thread, it is likely that you try to use this general name solely and exclusively for the 1611 KJV.

          Does the name "the Holy Bible" always refer to only or solely the KJV?
          Does the KJV have sole and exclusive rights to this general name "the Holy Bible"?
          Was the name "the Holy Bible" used for any other English translation before 1611?

          The 1611 KJV was both a revision of earlier English translations (Tyndale's to Bishops') and a translation of the printed original-language text editions of Scripture.

          The 1560 Geneva Bible had the following title on its title page:

          The Bible and Holy Scriptures contained in the Old and New Testament, translated according to the Hebrew and Greek.

          The 1568 Bishops' Bible had the following on its title page:

          The Holy Bible, containing the Old Testament and the New
          Authorised and appointed to be read in churches.

          The 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible, which is the edition prepared by the printers of the 1611 KJV and given to the KJV translators as the starting point in English for their work, had the following on its title page:

          The Holy Bible, containing the Old Testament and the New
          Authorised and appointed to be read in churches

          Thus, the 1611 KJV was not the first to have this title or name the Holy Bible. The 1611 KJV merely kept this name from the title page of the Bishops' Bible, even though the Church of England makers of the KJV made hundreds and thousands of changes to the text of the Bishops' Bible. The Holy Bible [English translation] in the Bishops' Bible is not the same as the Holy Bible[English translation] in the 1611 KJV even though both had the same name.

          Some editions of the KJV were printed with the title The Holy Bible containing the Old Testament and New while other editions were printed with the title The Holy Bible containing the Old and New Testaments.

          The 1833 Webster's Bible had the following on its title page:

          The Holy Bible containing the Old and New Testaments in the common version with amendments to the language by Noah Webster.

          In 1842, an English Bible had the following on its title page:

          The Holy Bible, being the English Version of the Old and New Testament, made by order of King James I,
          carefully revised and amended by several Biblical scholars.
          Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott, 1842.

          In 1901, the American Standard Version was published with this title:

          The Holy Bible containing the Old and New Testaments translated out of the original tongues.

          A. D. 1901
          Standard Edition
          New York: Thomas Nelson & Sons, 1901.

          Would you like to try to have a meaningful conversation?

          You seem to have a vast knowledge of Bible History, but can you have true knowledge of Bible History without first having Biblical knowledge of Bible Prophecy concerning The Holy Bible?

          Have you truly weighed out the passages of Matthew 24, 2Peter 2-3; 2Timothy 3; 2John 1:7 Jude; 1John 2:18-19, 2John 1:7, 3John & Amos 8? Do you understand each of these passages? Have you considered to check if the men involved, for example, that were President of the first Baptist Semenary were faithful Believers or Deceivers to determine that what had been taught to be factual truth or error?
          Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15
          __________________
          Don't be Bible DECEIVED Get a KJB 1611 Today!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jaeger View Post
            I was not impressed with that video. The regurgitated mantra of man made bloviating opinions in that video was neither convincing, nor informative.
            You could be generally describing videos that advocate a modern, non-scriptural KJV-only view.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jaeger View Post

              Would you like to try to have a meaningful conversation?
              I consistently attempt to engage in meaningful discussion, presenting as accurate and as sound information as possible. So far you have declined engaging in meaningful conversation or dialogue.

              I have clearly advocating applying scriptural truths consistently and justly.

              I repeatedly advocate the applying of the exact same measures/standards of doctrinal soundness to all Bible text critics/editors and to all Bible translators. Typically it has been advocates a KJV-only view that refuse to apply the exact same measures/standards consistently and justly.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jaeger View Post

                Would you like to try to have a meaningful conversation?

                You seem to have a vast knowledge of Bible History, but can you have true knowledge of Bible History without first having Biblical knowledge of Bible Prophecy concerning The Holy Bible?

                Have you truly weighed out the passages of Matthew 24, 2Peter 2-3; 2Timothy 3; 2John 1:7 Jude; 1John 2:18-19, 2John 1:7, 3John & Amos 8? Do you understand each of these passages? Have you considered to check if the men involved, for example, that were President of the first Baptist Semenary were faithful Believers or Deceivers to determine that what had been taught to be factual truth or error?
                And why should we believe that you have properly interpreted those passages?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jaeger View Post

                  Would you like to try to have a meaningful conversation?

                  You seem to have a vast knowledge of Bible History, but can you have true knowledge of Bible History without first having Biblical knowledge of Bible Prophecy concerning The Holy Bible?

                  Have you truly weighed out the passages of Matthew 24, 2Peter 2-3; 2Timothy 3; 2John 1:7 Jude; 1John 2:18-19, 2John 1:7, 3John & Amos 8? Do you understand each of these passages? Have you considered to check if the men involved, for example, that were President of the first Baptist Semenary were faithful Believers or Deceivers to determine that what had been taught to be factual truth or error?
                  Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

                  I consistently attempt to engage in meaningful discussion, presenting as accurate and as sound information as possible. So far you have declined engaging in meaningful conversation or dialogue.

                  I have clearly advocating applying scriptural truths consistently and justly.

                  I repeatedly advocate the applying of the exact same measures/standards of doctrinal soundness to all Bible text critics/editors and to all Bible translators. Typically it has been advocates a KJV-only view that refuse to apply the exact same measures/standards consistently and justly.
                  I am making a sincere attempt at communication. Would you like to demonstrate meaningful conversation, by engaging the questions that I asked you, and answering them?
                  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15
                  __________________
                  Don't be Bible DECEIVED Get a KJB 1611 Today!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jaeger View Post
                    I am making a sincere attempt at communication. Would you like to demonstrate meaningful conversation, by engaging the questions that I asked you, and answering them?
                    It is not demonstrating sincere, meaningful conversion to demand that I answer your questions while you have repeatedly dodged and avoided questions I have asked you. I have considered all that the Scriptures state and teach about themselves, and you have not proven that I reject any actual scriptural truths to give any basis for your attempted attack on my beliefs. You seem to assume incorrectly that I have to agree with your opinions to believe the Scriptures. My sound faith in God and in the Scriptures does not stand in the wisdom of men [in human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/wisdom] (1 Corinthians 2:5).

                    I have presented my scripturally-based position, and you have not engaged in meaningful discussion concerning it. I have backed up and discussed what I assert. On the other hand, you have not presented any positive, clear, consistent, sound, true, scriptural case for your claims concerning the KJV. You do not back up what you claim when it has been soundly challenged or answered. You merely try to dismiss and dodge my sound advocating of a consistent, just application of scriptural truths. You seek to dictate and limit what is discussed instead of backing up your own claims or discussing what I have presented. That is not making a sincere attempt at communication. You seem to seek to question in order to find a way to accuse and attack in an one-sided manner rather than engage in fair discussion.

                    I do not prevent you from engaging in serious meaningful discussion. You may choose to avoid it on your own.
                    Last edited by logos1560; 02-03-19, 02:59 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

                      It is not demonstrating sincere, meaningful conversion to demand that I answer your questions while you have repeatedly dodged and avoided questions I have asked you. I have considered all that the Scriptures state and teach about themselves, and you have not proven that I reject any actual scriptural truths to give any basis for your attempted attack on my beliefs. You seem to assume incorrectly that I have to agree with your opinions to believe the Scriptures.

                      I have presented my scripturally-based position, and you have not engaged in meaningful discussion concerning it. I have backed up and discussed what I assert. On the other hand, you have not presented any positive, clear, consistent, sound, true, scriptural case for your claims concerning the KJV. You do not back up what you claim when it has been soundly challenged or answered. You merely try to dismiss and dodge my sound advocating of a consistent, just application of scriptural truths. You seek to dictate and limit what is discussed instead of backing up your own claims or discussing what I have presented. That is not making a sincere attempt at communication.
                      It appears to me, as it has always been the case, that you choose to avoid answering questions directly related to Bible passages. Why is that? Also, I assert that you choose to control the dialog, making it "one sided" with your pre-made; pre-arranged mantra. To me, this is no different than if a Seventh Day Adventist, Mormon, or Jehovah's Witness shoved one of their publications in my face, and said, "You must read this pre-made, pre-arranged material and answer the pre-made questions in relation to the pre-made and pre-arranged indoctrination for a pre-dermined outcome. You must accept our indoctrination. Resistance is futile. You will be assimulated into the Borg Collective."

                      I authored this thread with the attempt of taking another approach, to ask questions, discuss Biblical Doctrine, and so forth.

                      I know that there are a great amount of false teachers on CARM. We are told that before we register or sign in. I am more than willing to discuss my faith and what I believe concerning Jesus Christ and what is written in The Holy Bible. But in all of this past year, not one time have I ever seen that you are willing to engage in such a discussion. I have observed that you are more than willing to point out what others believe about one subject or another, but never at anytime, have I observed you discussing what you believe. I don't know if you are even a Christian. I don't know if you believe in Jesus Christ. I had asked you questions before about what you believe, but you chose not to answer them, and to ignore them.

                      At any given moment, I could have a knock at my door from a Jehovah's Witness. They will be quick to tell me that my Bible is wrong, and that their New World Translation is the only "Translation" that is correct, along with telling me that everything that I believe is wrong, and that they are the only one's that are not. I can go on all day with many other examples.

                      Now, like them, you want to convince me that my Bible is wrong. I know all of the things that the JWs, Mormons, and S.D.A. believe, even better than they do. But you, on the other hand, have resisted to give any profession of your faith or if you even have a faith. Why is that? What is your motive and intent, if it is not to deceive me? While I don't know what you believe, I do recognize that you have the very same motive and agenda, as the Jehovah's Witnesses, to tell me that my Bible is wrong. I have also observed that you tout most similar arguments as the Jehovah's Witnesses with the effort to prove that my Bible is wrong.
                      Last edited by Jaeger; 02-03-19, 03:29 PM. Reason: spelling corrections
                      Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15
                      __________________
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                      • Originally posted by Jaeger View Post
                        It appears to me, as it has always been the case, that you choose to avoid answering questions directly related to Bible passages. Why is that?
                        You fail to prove your allegations to be true. I have answered a good number of questions. I wisely choose not to answer invalid questions that assume as true unproven KJV-only premises and diversionary questions that try to change the subject of this forum. You do not practice what you preach since you have not answered questions asked you.

                        Originally posted by Jaeger View Post

                        I authored this thread with the attempt of taking another approach, to ask questions, discuss Biblical Doctrine, and so forth.
                        No one prevents you from discussing actual Biblical doctrine that relates to the subject of Bible translations or the subject of KJV-only. You sometimes incorrectly try to bring other doctrinal matters into this forum concerning KJV-only. Because you start a thread, it would not entitle you to try to change the subject of this forum and it would not entitle you to violate forum rules.

                        Do you try to hide your human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning behind questions?

                        In order to discuss, you need also to answer questions in order to expect your questions to be deserve consideration. In a number of cases, questions should not be answered. If you ask invalid questions that assume unproven KJV-only premises, they should not be answered. If you ask diversionary questions to change the subject or bring in other doctrinal matters, they should not be answered. If you ask questions that attempt to misrepresent and distort what another poster stated, that question also would not deserve to be answered.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jaeger View Post

                          While I don't know what you believe, I do recognize that you have the very same motive and agenda, as the Jehovah's Witnesses, to tell me that my Bible is wrong. I have also observed that you tout most similar arguments as the Jehovah's Witnesses with the effort to prove that my Bible is wrong.
                          Your allegations and misrepresentations are wrong and false. I do not have the same motives and agenda as Jehovah's Witnesses and do not use the same arguments as Jehovah's Witnesses as you incorrectly allege. Your bogus, derogatory, false, insulting accusations would bear false witness in disobedience to the Scriptures. Your improper, insulting misrepresentations and allegations refute your claim that you were attempting to engage in meaningful conversation.

                          Disagreeing and questioning your human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching is not saying that the KJV is not the word of God translated into English in the same sense as the pre-1611 English Bibles and as post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV. I read and accept the KJV as what it actually is. I state the truth concerning the KJV. I accept the proper, derived authority of English Bible translations.

                          If you do not know what I believe, it is because you do not read carefully my posts. You have be blinded and hindered by your own human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning as you incorrectly assume false things about believers who disagree with following the opinions of men. I believe God and the Scriptures. Sound, biblical faith in God and in the Scriptures does not actually stand in the wisdom of men [in human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching]. I have made it very clear that I believe what the Scriptures teach and that I am a Bible-believing Baptist.
                          Last edited by logos1560; 02-03-19, 03:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jaeger

                            I take what is written in The Holy Bible very seriously,

                            I take the instruction of The Lord Jesus Christ and His chosen Apostles most seriously.
                            Readers of this forum may think that your posts demonstrate otherwise. Your own posts provide evidence that would demonstrate that you do not apply some clear scriptural truths consistently and justly. Perhaps my posts indicate that I take it more seriously and justly than your posts do. I believe and adhere to what is written in the Scriptures.

                            What is actually written in the Holy Bible and the instructions of the Lord Jesus Christ and His chose apostles do not include your modern, human, non-scriptural, KJV-only opinions.
                            You have not demonstrated that your modern, KJV-only teaching is written in the Holy Bible.

                            Originally posted by Jaeger View Post
                            I am making a sincere attempt at communication.
                            Readers of this forum may disagree, considering your unproven allegations.
                            Last edited by logos1560; 02-03-19, 04:08 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by logos1560 View Post
                              Readers of this forum may think that your posts demonstrate otherwise. Your own posts provide evidence that would demonstrate that you do not apply some clear scriptural truths consistently and justly. Perhaps my posts indicate that I take it more seriously and justly than your posts do.

                              What is actually written in the Holy Bible and the instructions of the Lord Jesus Christ and His chose apostles do not include your modern, human, non-scriptural, KJV-only opinions.
                              You have not demonstrated that your modern, KJV-only teaching is written in the Holy Bible.
                              The Leaders of the Watchtower Society (Jehovah's Witnesses); Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon) now called "The Church"; and Seventh Day Adventists would make similar remarks to erroneously influence "Readers". That is the Occult Mentality. My hope is that people will be discerning and TRUST what is written in The Holy Bible, and not drink the Kool-Aid of False Prophets & False Teachers.
                              Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15
                              __________________
                              Don't be Bible DECEIVED Get a KJB 1611 Today!

                              Comment


                              • Many readers are discerning and do trust what is written in the Scriptures, which is one important reason why they do not follow non-scriptural KJV-only opinions of men.

                                It is amazing that a professed believer would incorrectly allege that accepting what is written in the Scriptures is supposedly evidence of "occult mentality".

                                Comment

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