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Why a mansion?

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  • Why a mansion?

    For the KJVOist....

    Why do you insist on your "mansion" in the KJV?

    I've heard KJVOist say that Jesus is all they need. It would seem that is not correct. They need the illusion of a "mansion" found in the KJV......

    John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: KJV

    John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. ESV


  • #2
    Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
    For the KJVOist....

    Why do you insist on your "mansion" in the KJV?

    I've heard KJVOist say that Jesus is all they need. It would seem that is not correct. They need the illusion of a "mansion" found in the KJV......

    John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: KJV

    John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. ESV
    The gnostic versions screw everything up.....donít they ?
    No conviction,No conversion
    John 16:8
    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
      For the KJVOist....

      Why do you insist on your "mansion" in the KJV?

      I've heard KJVOist say that Jesus is all they need. It would seem that is not correct. They need the illusion of a "mansion" found in the KJV......

      John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: KJV

      John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. ESV
      A better interpretation is: In My Father's FAMILY are many Placements/Ministries. I go to prepare a CALLING/Ministry for you, and when I do, I'll come again to you, and we'll move together.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

        The gnostic versions screw everything up.....donít they ?
        You have never read a gnostic version I would bet.

        The English Standard Version has said the same exact thing as The King James Version. One in today's English, the other in early modern English.

        Of course both translations are just copies of William Tyndales Bible, the first English Bible translated from The Original Greek.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Conan View Post

          You have never read a gnostic version I would bet.

          The English Standard Version has said the same exact thing as The King James Version. One in today's English, the other in early modern English.

          Of course both translations are just copies of William Tyndales Bible, the first English Bible translated from The Original Greek.
          Manson did NOT mean rooms in 1611. In fact, read the Geneva or the Bishops.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

            A better interpretation is: In My Father's FAMILY are many Placements/Ministries. I go to prepare a CALLING/Ministry for you, and when I do, I'll come again to you, and we'll move together.
            Sarcasm will get you nowhere..... I would never say such a thing in translation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

              The gnostic versions screw everything up.....don’t they ?
              Yep. That Gnostic KJV indulges one's sense of pride.

              Comment


              • #8
                Three early English Bibles from the Greek Received Text have the rendering "dwelling places" at John 14:2 while the 1535 Coverdale's Bible and 1538 Coverdale's Duoglott have "dwellings." The 1543 Spanish Enzinas also has "moradas" [dwelling] at John 14:2. Luther's German Bible has "Wonungn" [dwellings] at John 14:2. Concerning this verse, Martin Luther wrote: “First of all, they should know of the many abodes for them with the Father” (Luther’s Works, Vol. 24, p. 26). Wycliffe’s Bible has “dwellings” at John 14:2. At this verse, the 1657 English edition of The Dutch Annotations has "In my Father's house [That is, in heaven] are many dwellings [or abidings, or abiding places]." The KJV translators rendered this same Greek word as "abode" at John 14:23. Would Gail Riplinger claim that “abode” was the KJV’s perfect built-in definition for mansion?

                There is an early source that provides an definition for how the word "mansion" was used in the 1600's. In 1604, Robert Cawdrey defined mansion as “an abiding place“(Table Alphabetical).

                In his 1828 Dictionary, Noah Webster gave the first definition of mansion as "any place of residence; a house; a habitation." He then listed the usage of "mansion" at John 14:2 as an example of this definition.

                Waite's Defined KJB gave the following definition for mansion: "resting, abiding, or dwelling places" (p. 1418). David Cloud’s Concise KJB Dictionary has this meaning: “an abode” (p. 58). The Liberty Annotated Study Bible gave the following note for mansions: "Lit. dwellings" (p. 1639). Green's Concise Lexicon defined the Greek word used at John 14:2 and 23 as "an abode, dwelling" (p. 85). A Bible Word List in the back of the Cambridge Standard Text Edition of the KJV defined mansions as “resting places, abiding places.“

                The rendering "mansions" actually came from the Latin Vulgate rendering in this verse: mansiones.

                Do present-day readers of the KJV understand the word "mansions" correctly or do they read another meaning into this word?

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                • #9
                  Not at home to double check.
                  Last edited by Conan; 01-15-19, 07:13 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                    Sarcasm will get you nowhere..... I would never say such a thing in translation.
                    That wasn't "Sarcasm", y'all. "Mansions" is an unfortunate "King Jamesianism" that takes the passage in ENTIRELY the wrong direction. I'll take a "Place in the Family of God" over a "Mansion on the hilltop" any day.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Greek word (monai) translated in the KJV as 'mansions' in John 14:2 appears only one other time in the NT, namely John 14:23, where the KJV translates it as 'abodes'.

                      It seems to get very little attention in the lexicons, even Liddell & Scott don't show it. But apparently it is related to the word for 'alone'.

                      Modern Americans might use the word to designate some large and expensive-looking residence, but I would guess the word used in John means a dwelling that one person can occupy all to himself, without having to share it; an individual apartment or cottage, as distinguished from a dormitory or barracks. In other words, a home of one's own. In antiquity, among the poor who followed Jesus, a dwelling of one's own would be a mark of prosperity and success.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by logos1560 View Post
                        Three early English Bibles from the Greek Received Text have the rendering "dwelling places" at John 14:2 while the 1535 Coverdale's Bible and 1538 Coverdale's Duoglott have "dwellings." The 1543 Spanish Enzinas also has "moradas" [dwelling] at John 14:2. Luther's German Bible has "Wonungn" [dwellings] at John 14:2. Concerning this verse, Martin Luther wrote: “First of all, they should know of the many abodes for them with the Father” (Luther’s Works, Vol. 24, p. 26). Wycliffe’s Bible has “dwellings” at John 14:2. At this verse, the 1657 English edition of The Dutch Annotations has "In my Father's house [That is, in heaven] are many dwellings [or abidings, or abiding places]." The KJV translators rendered this same Greek word as "abode" at John 14:23. Would Gail Riplinger claim that “abode” was the KJV’s perfect built-in definition for mansion?

                        There is an early source that provides an definition for how the word "mansion" was used in the 1600's. In 1604, Robert Cawdrey defined mansion as “an abiding place“(Table Alphabetical).

                        In his 1828 Dictionary, Noah Webster gave the first definition of mansion as "any place of residence; a house; a habitation." He then listed the usage of "mansion" at John 14:2 as an example of this definition.

                        Waite's Defined KJB gave the following definition for mansion: "resting, abiding, or dwelling places" (p. 1418). David Cloud’s Concise KJB Dictionary has this meaning: “an abode” (p. 58). The Liberty Annotated Study Bible gave the following note for mansions: "Lit. dwellings" (p. 1639). Green's Concise Lexicon defined the Greek word used at John 14:2 and 23 as "an abode, dwelling" (p. 85). A Bible Word List in the back of the Cambridge Standard Text Edition of the KJV defined mansions as “resting places, abiding places.“

                        The rendering "mansions" actually came from the Latin Vulgate rendering in this verse: mansiones.

                        Do present-day readers of the KJV understand the word "mansions" correctly or do they read another meaning into this word?
                        Sense of "any large and stately house" is from 1510s.

                        https://www.etymonline.com/word/mansion


                        The question is not one of if it reference a "dwelling place" as in the Geneva and Bishops from the era. It is the "manner or state" of said dwelling place that is the issue.

                        As early as 1510s there was a sense of a "large and stately house" associated with the English word "mansion". Which is certainly something that would no doubt appeal to some sense of "reward" in heaven.

                        The Greek source gives no sense of such. I will say that on a personal note, that every single person I've ever heard bash modern versions over "dwelling places".... .did so.. because they felt it diminished their sense of reward....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                          That wasn't "Sarcasm", y'all. "Mansions" is an unfortunate "King Jamesianism" that takes the passage in ENTIRELY the wrong direction. I'll take a "Place in the Family of God" over a "Mansion on the hilltop" any day.
                          Ain't that the truth! Not the part about "King Jamesianism" but our eternal life in Christ is so much better...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Did anyone ever see a house or temple built with stones, packed tightly together row upon row upon row ?

                            The Bible says somewhere Ekklesia are "living stones" placed (in the right place) together .... by Yahweh (G-d), as He Pleases.....

                            Now , for fun, picture all the stones placed together ..... shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip, row upon row upon row ..... imagine that for a little while ....

                            And then REJOICE that Yeshua has prepared a room, modest and complete and perfect, for each one of the living stones.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
                              For the KJVOist....

                              Why do you insist on your "mansion" in the KJV?

                              I've heard KJVOist say that Jesus is all they need. It would seem that is not correct. They need the illusion of a "mansion" found in the KJV......

                              John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: KJV

                              John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. ESV
                              It's safe to say that there will be no mansions in hell. Nothing but fire and torment for all eternity with the gnashing of teeth for those that mock God, mock His written words, and preach "another jesus". And preach an AC/DC god.

                              Yeah no amount of well equipped firefighters could save a mansion in Hell ! Hey thatíll Preach ! !
                              No conviction,No conversion
                              John 16:8
                              And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                              Comment

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