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The #1 problem with KJVOism

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  • #46
    Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
    The #1 problem with KJVOism is...... PRIDE...
    While I agree pride is a problem,. I would not cite it as the "#1" problem. That I would cite as idolatry. The allegiance to KJVOism exceeds any acknowledgement of the Greek and therefore any acknowledgment that the best, most accurate, most historically close to the original word of God is the Greek manuscripts. Here in this board we routinely read postured protests of the KJV's accuracy and undeniable denials of the Greek when it is presented. We read postured protests those who use other translations - even if the KJV is also used - are misguided, not speaking truth, or even have our eternal disposition denied. The actions will not be acknowledged or confessed but we observe them any given day here. They deny the ears and bellies and knees of the body of Christ and this divisive condemning of members of the body of Christ conjoined with the denial of God's word from which the KJV is drawn conspires as a violation of the first two of the Ten Commandments.
    Exodus 20:3-5 KJV
    "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them..."
    Exodus 20:3-5 NAS
    "You shall have no other gods before Me. "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. "You shall not worship them or serve them..."
    All sin is sin and the results of all sin is death, but I would respectfully suggest the reason pride is a problem is because it is idolatrous.
    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Conan View Post

      I think you meant to say that he prayed that God would open King Henry the eighth eyes and allow the Bible to be legal in England. The Bible was already translated into English by then, seeing how William Tyndale had already translated The whole New Testament from The Original Greek and half of The Old Testament from The Original Hebrew. Coverdale completed the rest from the Latin, and the Geneva the rest from The Hebrew. The King James is made up from these Bible's already existing Bibles. Please compare the early English Versions to the KJV sometime. It is a fantastic thing.
      God opened the eyes of the king of England in answer to Tyndale's prayer. The king was not inspired to translate the Bible and he was not involved with any of the wording. It was God who supplied the inspiration through various men (both saved and lost) to get the translation done in English.
      I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

      If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

      For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Conan View Post

        I think you meant to say that he prayed that God would open King Henry the eighth eyes and allow the Bible to be legal in England. The Bible was already translated into English by then, seeing how William Tyndale had already translated The whole New Testament from The Original Greek and half of The Old Testament from The Original Hebrew. Coverdale completed the rest from the Latin, and the Geneva the rest from The Hebrew. The King James is made up from these Bible's already existing Bibles. Please compare the early English Versions to the KJV sometime. It is a fantastic thing.
        I am not a translator. I must trust the Lord to give me a good Bible to read, and I trust the KJV is the Bible God wants me to read.
        I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

        If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

        For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

          Marke, I've shown error after error after error after error..... and you pretend there is no issues. I'm not going to play your games.
          Always the same thing. When I ask for specifics I generally get "I already showed you lots of times but no more."

          That is demonstrably wrong. You refuse to admit when you're wrong. Even the simplest of mistakes are ignored by you.
          Over and over again I've proven them wrong. Others have proven the KJV is wrong.
          One man's 'proof' is another man's rubbish.

          Nonsense? James quoted Proverbs 3:34 but what he quoted isn't found in your KJV.
          So? It is close enough for God, I think.

          James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

          Try... You can't find this quote in your KJV.
          If it is not there then why should I insist it should be?

          No. I'm talking about your king's bible. The bible that bears his name. The "King James Bible".
          The king does not own God's Word and neither does England. But I own a copy of God's Word, thank God.

          Then why is his name on every single KJV in existence? Why do you say that is insignificant? You're dreaming Mark.
          They say the words in the Bible are inspired, not the cover or marginal notes or attributions to those involved in its translation, either actively or passively.


          Tyndale produced his own edition. It bears his name. Why don't you use Tyndale's work?
          Tyndale prayed to God that God would finish the work he started. I believe the KJV was what was done to finish the work Tyndale started.

          The Bible had already been translated into English several times before your king decided to produce his own private interpretation.
          Jesus is my King. If King Jesus wanted to add one more to the growing list of English translations then I am OK with that.

          I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

          If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

          For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

            The errors in human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning have been spelled out over and over, but you may close your eyes to seeing them.
            Of course I have refuted the past arguments so many times that my critics are no longer willing to present them again.

            It has been spelled out how that human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching conflicts with a just application of clear scriptural truths.
            Yes, you have presented your opinion and I have told you why I am not persuaded you are right.

            KJV-only advocates are even more quick to race to unjust judgment and condemnation of believers who disagree with following opinions of men [KJV-only advocates].
            I condemn nobody. I let God be the judge.

            You have been proven wrong a number of times where you did not admit it and where you have not corrected your mistaken opinions.
            I have been told I am wrong many times but I am more persuaded by other scholars to believe what I think in spite of criticism from those who do not agree.

            I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

            If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

            For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

              King James was very significant in the making of the KJV since he made or approved the rules for its making and he appointed Archbishop Richard Bancroft to oversee and control the process of translating, ensuring that Church of England bias would be likely in some translation decisions.
              I do not subscribe to the notion that God's Word changes through time as men are involved in its preservation, transcription and translation.
              I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

              If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

              For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                While I agree pride is a problem,. I would not cite it as the "#1" problem. That I would cite as idolatry. The allegiance to KJVOism exceeds any acknowledgement of the Greek and therefore any acknowledgment that the best, most accurate, most historically close to the original word of God is the Greek manuscripts. Here in this board we routinely read postured protests of the KJV's accuracy and undeniable denials of the Greek when it is presented. We read postured protests those who use other translations - even if the KJV is also used - are misguided, not speaking truth, or even have our eternal disposition denied. The actions will not be acknowledged or confessed but we observe them any given day here. They deny the ears and bellies and knees of the body of Christ and this divisive condemning of members of the body of Christ conjoined with the denial of God's word from which the KJV is drawn conspires as a violation of the first two of the Ten Commandments.
                Exodus 20:3-5 KJV
                "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them..."
                Exodus 20:3-5 NAS
                "You shall have no other gods before Me. "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. "You shall not worship them or serve them..."
                All sin is sin and the results of all sin is death, but I would respectfully suggest the reason pride is a problem is because it is idolatrous.
                "That shalt have no other Gods before me" does not mean "Thou shalt not honor the Word of God given by God to His people down through time."
                I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by marke View Post

                  "That shalt have no other Gods before me" does not mean "Thou shalt not honor the Word of God given by God to His people down through time."
                  You are not honoring the word of God by not acknowledging all of the differences and changes to the 1611 Bible and later editions of the KJV Bible.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by marke View Post
                    "That shalt have no other Gods before me" does not mean "Thou shalt not honor the Word of God given by God to His people down through time."
                    It means thou shalt not honor a written translation of my revelation above Me.

                    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by marke View Post

                      I do not subscribe to the notion that God's Word changes through time as men are involved in its preservation, transcription and translation.
                      Your KJV-only reasoning would in effect have to accept that notion since it is a fact that the 1611 KJV is not 100% identical to any preserved original-language manuscript copies of Scripture, any known Bible translations before 1611 including the pre-1611 English Bibles, and even in the many varying KJV editions. God's word has changed according to erroneous KJV-only reasoning since KJV-only reasoning in effect claimed that it changed in 1611.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by marke View Post

                        Yes, you have presented your opinion and I have told you why I am not persuaded you are right.

                        Your incorrect opinion that suggests that scriptural truths and verifiable facts are mere opinions is wrong.

                        You persuade yourself to accept non-scriptural KJV-only opinions over scriptural truths and actual facts.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by marke View Post

                          "That shalt have no other Gods before me" does not mean "Thou shalt not honor the Word of God given by God to His people down through time."
                          You have not named and identified any specific edition of the word of God available before 1611 that you will accept and honor.

                          You do not name and identify any specific edition of the preserved original-language texts of Scripture that you accept and honor.

                          Your posts do not demonstrate that you truly honor the word of God given by God to His people many years before 1611.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Conan View Post

                            You are not honoring the word of God by not acknowledging all of the differences and changes to the 1611 Bible and later editions of the KJV Bible.
                            Many KJV defenders and KJV-only advocates close their eyes to the facts about all the actual differences in KJV editions.

                            Some KJV-only advocates may generally refer to a Cambridge KJV edition and an Oxford KJV edition, in effect admitting a few differences between the two. What seems usually or generally referred to as an Oxford edition of the KJV and as an Cambridge edition of the KJV would be post-1900 editions, ignoring 300 years of the history of the KJV.

                            There have been varying standard Cambridge editions of the KJV such as the 1629 Cambridge, the 1638 Cambridge, the 1743 Cambridge, the 1762 Cambridge, the 1805/1817 Cambridge, the 1873 Cambridge, and a 2005 Cambridge edition edited by David Norton. In a number of cases, it was actually a standard Cambridge edition that introduced or standardized a rendering that would be characterized as being an Oxford rendering after 1900.

                            These two editions are considered different based on only three to ten main variations (Josh. 19:2, 2 Chron. 33:19, Ps. 107:27, Ps. 148:8, Jer. 34:16, Nahum 3:16, Matthew 26:39, and Mark 1:19) with the underlined four being the main ones. There could also be as many as twenty spelling differences of some proper names between a typical 1900's Oxford KJV edition, which follows 1769 Oxford spellings of these names, and a typical 1900's Cambridge edition, which may follow Scrivener's 1873 Cambridge editions, which returned to 1611 spellings. It was also the 1873 Cambridge, which reintroduced the renderings in the verses I mentioned that are considered typical of Cambridge 1900's editions while 1800's Cambridge KJV editions typically had the same renderings as 1800's Oxford KJV editions.



                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Conan View Post

                              You are not honoring the word of God by not acknowledging all of the differences and changes to the 1611 Bible and later editions of the KJV Bible.
                              You can argue translations all you like but I will not believe God allowed His Word to be altered by men and that the best He can do today for His people is to give them a Bible filled with errors.
                              I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                              If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                              For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                                It means thou shalt not honor a written translation of my revelation above Me.
                                "...For thous hast magnified thy word above all thy name." Psalm 138:2.
                                I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                                If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                                For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                                Comment

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