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The #1 problem with KJVOism

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  • #61
    Originally posted by marke View Post
    You can argue translations all you like but I will not believe God allowed His Word to be altered by men and that the best He can do today for His people is to give them a Bible filled with errors.
    Are you saying the word of God originated and ended in the 1611 authorized version?

    Or is the word of God to be found exclusively in some later version of the KJV? If so, specifically which version?

    Then what about previous to the 1611 version ... where was the word of God them.


    Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by marke View Post

      You can argue translations all you like but I will not believe God allowed His Word to be altered by men and that the best He can do today for His people is to give them a Bible filled with errors.
      Perhaps you do not argue soundly, justly, and consistently. Do you invent a straw man since it is not being claimed by non-KJV-only believers that present Bible translations are filled with errors?

      It is usually KJV-only advocates that are in effect claiming that God allowed His word to be altered by men and filled with errors in present English Bible translations.

      Do you say that you do not believe that God allowed His word to be altered by men in the 1537 Matthew's Bible, in the 1539 Great Bible, in the 1560 Geneva Bible, or in the 1568 Bishops' Bible?

      Do you say that you do not believe that God allowed His word to be altered by men in the NKJV?

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by marke View Post
        ...For thous hast magnified thy word above all thy name." Psalm 138:2.
        Alas, you probably intend that to disprove something or other but who can tell because all that you've done is post half a verse without relevant commentary.

        While it may be true God has magnified His word above His name, neither His word nor His name is Him. You are in essence proving my point and apparently doing so in a postured manner betraying the pride with which this idolatry is entrenched.

        The magnified word of Psalm 138:2 is not the KJV, marke. It is idolatrous that you think so.
        All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

        “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Trucker View Post

          [B][COLOR=#0000FF]Are you saying the word of God originated and ended in the 1611 authorized version?

          Of course no. Don't be ridiculous. If all you critics think that is what I believe then there is no wonder so many of my ignorant critics falsely accuse me of holding false doctrines.
          I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

          If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

          For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by logos1560 View Post

            Perhaps you do not argue soundly, justly, and consistently. Do you invent a straw man since it is not being claimed by non-KJV-only believers that present Bible translations are filled with errors?
            If critics do not claim the Word of God has been altered in every version of the Bible on the market today then we agree.
            I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

            If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

            For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by marke View Post

              You can argue translations all you like but I will not believe God allowed His Word to be altered by men and that the best He can do today for His people is to give them a Bible filled with errors.
              God allowed men the translate the Apocrypha and put it in the 1611 KJV . He also allowed men to take it out of most editions in the 1885's. Which was the mistake? God allowed men to print and spell the same words many different ways in the 1611 KJV , then allowed men to change the spellings of those words. There are differences of readings between different editions of the KJV through out history. Are you denying these things?

              http://www.bible.ca/b-kjv-only.htm#proof

              Last edited by Conan; 02-17-19, 03:04 PM.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                Alas, you probably intend that to disprove something or other but who can tell because all that you've done is post half a verse without relevant commentary.

                While it may be true God has magnified His word above His name, neither His word nor His name is Him. You are in essence proving my point and apparently doing so in a postured manner betraying the pride with which this idolatry is entrenched.

                The magnified word of Psalm 138:2 is not the KJV, marke. It is idolatrous that you think so.
                God has greatly magnified His own Word so I see no problem doing the same thing myself.
                I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Conan View Post

                  God allowed men the translate the Apocrypha and put it in the 1611 KJV . He also allowed men to take it out of most editions in the 1885's. Which was the mistake? God allowed men to print and spell the same words many different ways in the 1611 KJV , then allowed men to change the spellings of those words. There are differences of readings between different editions of the KJV through out history. Are you renting these things?
                  If you are insisting all modern Bibles are hopelessly corrupted then I am afraid I cannot agree with you.
                  I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                  If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                  For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by marke View Post

                    God has greatly magnified His own Word so I see no problem doing the same thing myself.
                    You are not God. You also fail to demonstrate that you do the exact same thing that God does. You fail to show that you magnify the actual exact specific words given by inspiration of God to the prophets and apostles.

                    In a number of your posts, you actually magnify the human textual criticism decisions, Bible-revision decisions, Bible-correction decisions, and translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England critics in 1611

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by marke View Post
                      Are you saying the word of God originated and ended in the 1611 authorized version?

                      Or is the word of God to be found exclusively in some later version of the KJV? If so, specifically which version?

                      Then what about previous to the 1611 version ... where was the word of God them.

                      Of course no. Don't be ridiculous. If all you critics think that is what I believe then there is no wonder so many of my ignorant critics falsely accuse me of holding false doctrines.
                      Here's what you said, Marke:
                      Originally posted by marke View Post
                      You can argue translations all you like but I will not believe God allowed His Word to be altered by men and that the best He can do today for His people is to give them a Bible filled with errors.
                      Obviously God's word has been altered even if only by the process of honest, sincere, and informed translating. ... by men, Marke. Certainly the 1611 altered God's word as it was previous to the 1611`. Later editions, versions, or whatever you wish to call them, have subsequently altered the words as they appeared in the 1611. Even the Greek text the KJV was based on altered God's word as it had appeared in the preserved Greek manuscripts since there are Greek words in the TR that appear nowhere in any Greek manuscript known to man, Keep in mind that one of the favorite "gottcha phrases the KJVO's love to spout is; "What is different cannot be the same." [Come back home to bite 'em too!]

                      So, and please do be specific, where is it that you find all the unaltered words of God, Marke??
                      Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by marke View Post

                        If you are insisting all modern Bibles are hopelessly corrupted then I am afraid I cannot agree with you.
                        I was not talking about all modern Bibles but the different editions of the KJV . 1611 and modern printed KJV's. We have been discussing the KJV of the Bible.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by marke View Post
                          God has greatly magnified His own Word so I see no problem doing the same thing myself.
                          Non sequitur. None here dissenting from KJVOism are not magnifying God's word.

                          We simply don't magnify God's word (logos or rhema) over God Himself. KJVOists do.

                          We don't magnify any English translation over the original languages. KJVOists do.

                          We don't use any given English translation to divide the body of Christ. KJVOists do.



                          KJVOists do these things constantly and just as constantly refuse to see or have it corrected. I Have in the past, can do so now, and will probably in the future - along with all the others here - show you countless examples where the KJV fails over the Greek. We can and do this with any and every English translation because none are perfect and the wise student of God's word always uses more than one translation and consults the Greek once practiced sufficiently. I have never once been refuted when pointing out a KJV flaw and while you may not recall our exchanges I have corrected your nonsense on more than one occasion. KJVOism fails because the KJV isn't a perfect translation of the original languages.


                          But that is old news and only KJVOists are blind to it.


                          That is why I took this opportunity to highlight a different problem with KJVOism: it has grown into an idolatry.

                          And you, in the vain attempt to deny that reality ended up proving it because (and I repeat myself) the "word" of Psalm 138:2 is not the KJV and any attempt to exploit Psalm 138:2 that way is unmitigated foolishness. I truly hope you didn't think that was some form of a just and sound exegetical response because it was a Fail, and nothing more. An infinite number of response were available to you and one of the few that would prove my point was chosen.

                          You should look at that prayerfully and ask God how it was you thought that was a cogent response when it wasn't.
                          All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                          “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Trucker View Post

                            Here's what you said, Marke:

                            [COLOR=#0000FF][B]Obviously God's word has been altered even if only by the process of honest, sincere, and informed translating. ... by men, Marke.

                            You assume the best translation God can give us is corrupted? I don't. God gives us understanding of His perfect Word in response to our prayers for wisdom and understanding and He is not forced to give us a corrupted Bible to study.
                            I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                            If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                            For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Conan View Post

                              I was not talking about all modern Bibles but the different editions of the KJV . 1611 and modern printed KJV's. We have been discussing the KJV of the Bible.
                              Do you then believe God gives some other translation besides the KJV to His people to study, honor and believe? Is that other translation relatively free of error?
                              I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                              If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                              For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                                Non sequitur. None here dissenting from KJVOism are not magnifying God's word.

                                We simply don't magnify God's word (logos or rhema) over God Himself. KJVOists do.

                                We don't magnify any English translation over the original languages. KJVOists do.

                                We don't use any given English translation to divide the body of Christ. KJVOists do.



                                KJVOists do these things constantly and just as constantly refuse to see or have it corrected. I Have in the past, can do so now, and will probably in the future - along with all the others here - show you countless examples where the KJV fails over the Greek. We can and do this with any and every English translation because none are perfect and the wise student of God's word always uses more than one translation and consults the Greek once practiced sufficiently. I have never once been refuted when pointing out a KJV flaw and while you may not recall our exchanges I have corrected your nonsense on more than one occasion. KJVOism fails because the KJV isn't a perfect translation of the original languages.


                                But that is old news and only KJVOists are blind to it.


                                That is why I took this opportunity to highlight a different problem with KJVOism: it has grown into an idolatry.

                                And you, in the vain attempt to deny that reality ended up proving it because (and I repeat myself) the "word" of Psalm 138:2 is not the KJV and any attempt to exploit Psalm 138:2 that way is unmitigated foolishness. I truly hope you didn't think that was some form of a just and sound exegetical response because it was a Fail, and nothing more. An infinite number of response were available to you and one of the few that would prove my point was chosen.

                                You should look at that prayerfully and ask God how it was you thought that was a cogent response when it wasn't.
                                I have not encountered these mysterious KJVOists and the strange things you claim they believe. Do you have specifics we could look at together?
                                I am not a NPB-Onlyist (No Perfect Bible Onlyist), nor a NA/UBS-Onlyist. Marke

                                If this book be not infallible, where shall we find infallibility? We have given up the Pope, for he has blundered often and terribly; but we shall not set up instead of him a horde of little popelings fresh from college. C. H. Spurgeon

                                For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorized Version. C.H. Spurgeon

                                Comment

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