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Did KJV restore a key-word of the Roman Catholic faith?

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  • Did KJV restore a key-word of the Roman Catholic faith?



    At 1 Corinthians 13:1 the Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) maintained that the word "charity" comes from the Latin charitas and "means basically benevolence or alms-giving." Geddes MacGregor asserted that “the Vulgate use of caritas suggested ’charity’” (Literary History, p. 114). W. E. Campbell noted the following about the use of this word: "Charity, then is the key-word of the Catholic faith; and Tyndale's object, as [Sir Thomas] More points out, was to displace it by the commoner word 'love,' and thus to make way for the key-word of Protestantism, which was faith" (Erasmus, Tyndale, and More, p. 128). Brian Moynaham pointed out: “Charity is linked in meaning to good works, and it was in the interests of the established Church--Catholic in More’s day” (God’s Best Seller, p. 106). Bill Cooper asserted: “Charity is a monetary commodity (where love is not), and can therefore be bought and sold on the market of good works and merit. Instead of Tyndale’s love covering a multitude of sins, it is the Roman charity that ‘does it’ for the faithful, who thus must earn their salvation by good works. It was, in short, a deliberate return to the ways of the Latin church” (Tyndale Society Journal, August, 2007, p. 68). Derek Wilson wrote: “’Charity’ was a word which fitted in far better with the concept of ‘good deeds’ than the more spiritually demanding ‘love’” (People’s Bible, p. 115).

    William Tyndale argued that "charity had ceased to be the name of an inward, Divine grace, and denoted only certain outward ostentatious deeds sanctioned by the ecclesiastics" (William Tindale, p. 320). Tyndale contended that "verily charity is no known English which Agape requireth" (Expositions, p. 135). Tyndale commented: “Finally, I say not, charity God, or charity your neighbour; but, love God, and love your neighbour” (Answer, p. 21). David Teems noted: “Tyndale was fond of the word love not only for its accuracy, but also for its flexibility. Both noun and verb, it suggested possibilities about the nature of God itself” (Tyndale, p. 190). John Drury noted that in Tyndale’s New Testament “agape came out as ‘love’ rather than (following the Vulgate and the church’s hierarchy of virtues) ‘charity’” (Introduction, N. T., p. xiii). Moynaham observed: “Tyndale was justified in finding that ‘love’ was a more accurate translation of the original agape” (God’s Best Seller, p. 73). Concerning 1 Corinthians 13, A. T. Robertson wrote: "Charity (Latin caritas) is wholly inadequate" (Word Pictures, IV, p. 176).

    Ronald Bridges wrote: "The advocates of Catholic Latinity had in some way gathered strength, for in the second edition of the Bishops' Bible, published in that year [1572], the word 'charity' is substituted for 'love' in 32 cases" (KJB Word Book, p. 208). E. H. Robertson observed that "the Bishops' Bible used the word 'charity' under the influence of the Latin Vulgate" (New Translations, p. 22). Geddes MacGregor confirmed that it was the Vulgate’s use of charitas that suggested “charity” (Literary History, p. 114). John Beard asserted that “the ecclesiastical word ‘charity’ from the charitas of the Latin Vulgate is preferred by King James’s divines to the Saxon word ‘love,‘ which they found in Tyndale’s version as well as in the Bible of Cramner and of Geneva” (A Revised English Bible, p. 79). In its chapter contents heading at Deuteronomy 33, the 1611 KJV has this for verse 19: “Of Charity.” Its heading at Ecclesiastes chapter 11 beginning with the first verse is “Directions for charity.” The heading for verse 1 of Hebrews 13 in the 1611 is “Divers admonitions, as to Charity.” The headings for Acts chapter 4 end with the words “with mutual love and charity.”


  • #2
    No. "Charity" is "made up" (incorrectly) in Scripture, replacing "Righteousness" which is the original word, idea, and practice in Scripture and in Hebrew life and practice..

    Comment


    • #3
      William Tyndale, the man whom God used to give us The Word of God in English, correctly translated the Greek word for love as, "love".
      The KJV incorrectly translated the Greek word for love as "charity", following the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Conan View Post
        William Tyndale, the man whom God used to give us The Word of God in English, correctly translated the Greek word for love as, "love".
        The KJV incorrectly translated the Greek word for love as "charity", following the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate.
        Well, in their defence, one of the meanings of "charity", from the Online Etymological Dictionary, is "Christian love in its highest manifestation". This is not its common usage nowadays but it was probably much more common when the KJV was translated.

        I sometimes still hear people says something like, "That's not very charitable!", responding to another's unkind remark. This is clearly nothing to do with alms-giving.
        John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by David1701 View Post

          Well, in their defence, one of the meanings of "charity", from the Online Etymological Dictionary, is "Christian love in its highest manifestation". This is not its common usage nowadays but it was probably much more common when the KJV was translated.

          I sometimes still hear people says something like, "That's not very charitable!", responding to another's unkind remark. This is clearly nothing to do with alms-giving.
          Logos is absolutely correct and there really isn't a proper defense for the use of "charity" apart from Catholic dogma and early Latin church traditions.

          The exact thing can be witnessed with the word "concupiscence" in the KJV and other English translations.

          The "Catholic church" turned "lust" into a doctrine in concupiscence. The "Catholic church" turned love into a "doctrine" in "charity'. Thus, when Paul is preaching "doctrine", it is natural to use the word associated with the "doctrine" of tradition.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by David1701 View Post
            This is not its common usage nowadays but it was probably much more common when the KJV was translated.
            One often stated objection to the KJV is exactly that ... the archaic words and phrases. We don't converse in those terms today ... not even the KJVOS! The English language, like all living languages, has moved on since 1611.
            Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Trucker View Post

              One often stated objection to the KJV is exactly that ... the archaic words and phrases. We don't converse in those terms today ... not even the KJVOS! The English language, like all living languages, has moved on since 1611.
              Would your logic apply to the NIV ?

              I hear it is suppose to be sooo much easier to read.....only they lied about that. Lol

              look at their list of easier words :

              abashed, abominable, abutted, acclaim, adder, adhere, admonishing, advocate, alcove, algum, allocate, allots, ally, aloes, appease, ardent, armlets, arrayed, astir, atonement, awl, banishment, battlements, behemoth, belial, bereaves, betrothed, bier, blighted, booty, brayed, breaching, breakers, buffeted, burnished, calamus, capital (not a city), carnelian, carrion, centurions, chasm, chronic, chrysolite, cistern, citadel, citron, clefts, cohorts, colonnades, complacency, coney, concession, congealed, conjure, contrite, convocations, crest, cors, curds, dandled, dappled, debauchery, decimated, deluged, denarii, depose, derides, despoil, dire,dispossess, disrepute, dissipation, distill, dissuade, divination, dragnet, dropsy, duplicity, earthenware, ebony, emasculate, emission, encroach, enmity, enthralled, entreaty, ephod, epicurean, ewe, excrement, exodus, factions, felled, festal, fettered, figurehead, filigree, flagstaff, fomenting, forded, fowler, gadfly, galled, gird, gauntness, gecko, gloating, goiim, harrowing, haunt, hearld, henna, homers, hoopoe, ignoble, impaled, implore, incur, indignant, insatiable, insolence, intact, invoked, jambs, joists, jowls, lairs, lamentation, leviathan, libations, loins, magi, manifold, maritime, mattocks, maxims, mina, misdemeanor, mother-of-pearl, mustering, myrtles, naive, naught, Negev, Nephilim, nettles, nocturnal, nomad, notorious, Nubians, oblivion, obsolete, odious, offal, omer, oracles, overweening, parapet, parchments, pavilion, peals (noun, not the verb), perjurers, perpetuate, pestilence, pinions, phylacteries, plumage, pomp, porphyry, portent, potsherd, proconsul, propriety, poultice, Praetorium, pretext, profligate, promiscuity, provincial, providence, qualm, quarries, quivers (noun, not verb), ramparts, ransacked, ratified, ravish, rabble, rawboned, relish (not for hotdogs), recoils, recount, refrain, relent, rend, reposes, reprimanded, reputed, retinue, retorted, retribution, rifts, roebucks, rue, sachet, satraps, sated, shipwrights, siegeworks, sinews, sistrums, sledges, smelted, somber, soothsayer, sovereignty, spelt, stadia, stench, stipulation, sullen, tamarisk, tanner, temperate, tether, tetrarch, terebinth, thresher, throes, thronged, tiaras, tinder, tracts, transcends, tresses, turbulent, tyrannical, unscathed, unrelenting, usury, vassal, vaunts, vehemently, verdant, vexed, wadi, wanton, warranted, wield, winnowing and wrenched.
              No conviction,No conversion
              John 16:8
              And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Trucker View Post

                One often stated objection to the KJV is exactly that ... the archaic words and phrases. We don't converse in those terms today ... not even the KJVOS! The English language, like all living languages, has moved on since 1611.
                Quite right, which is why I don't use the KJV very often. Having said that, it is very poetic in places, more so than modern versions (e.g. "through a glass darkly") and tends to be the easiest to memorise.
                John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                  Logos is absolutely correct and there really isn't a proper defense for the use of "charity" apart from Catholic dogma and early Latin church traditions.

                  The exact thing can be witnessed with the word "concupiscence" in the KJV and other English translations.

                  The "Catholic church" turned "lust" into a doctrine in concupiscence. The "Catholic church" turned love into a "doctrine" in "charity'. Thus, when Paul is preaching "doctrine", it is natural to use the word associated with the "doctrine" of tradition.
                  I do prefer the translation "love" to "charity" myself. The high Anglican influence on the KJV was unfortunate.
                  John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
                    Originally posted by Trucker View Post
                    One often stated objection to the KJV is exactly that ... the archaic words and phrases. We don't converse in those terms today ... not even the KJVOS! The English language, like all living languages, has moved on since 1611.
                    Would your logic apply to the NIV .
                    You seem to ignore the fact that I am not an NIV ONLYIST. Never have been! And that is really the central issue here ... that "ONLY" or "ONLYIST" garbage. But I will say I would take the NIV over the KJV anytime when the intended readers are today's monolingual English speaking seekers. Thankfully, many of the obvious errors present in the KJV are corrected in the NIV, I can also say there is no reason to think the NIV could not have been better than it was or better than it is.
                    Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [NIV]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David1701 View Post

                      I do prefer the translation "love" to "charity" myself. The high Anglican influence on the KJV was unfortunate.
                      Charity is a form of love. It is consistent with love.

                      But the word charity contains the FULL meaning. The reason is

                      this: If I love my wife, my wife can love me back. Therefore 'what

                      thanks have ye'. If I love my wife and my wife loves me back, I am being

                      REPAID.

                      The Bible is very clear about giving: 'GIVE EXPECTING NOTHING in

                      return', 'it is more blessed to GIVE, than to receive, 'for God so loved

                      the world that he GAVE his only begotten son ...'

                      But 'charity', by definition, is giving when you do not expect to be

                      repaid. When we give our time and money to a charity, we don't get a

                      check back in the mail !

                      Thus, charity is a HIGHER form of giving than just love.

                      When Jesus gave His life for us He was being 'charitable'. He was

                      giving and getting nothing in return. What He gave to us we can NEVER

                      FULLY repay. Giving when you expect 'nothing back' is charity.

                      Thus, the full meaning is in the King James: "... faith, hope,

                      CHARITY, these three; but the greatest of these is CHARITY".

                      No conviction,No conversion
                      John 16:8
                      And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                        Charity is a form of love. It is consistent with love.

                        But the word charity contains the FULL meaning. The reason is

                        this: If I love my wife, my wife can love me back. Therefore 'what

                        thanks have ye'. If I love my wife and my wife loves me back, I am being

                        REPAID.

                        The Bible is very clear about giving: 'GIVE EXPECTING NOTHING in

                        return', 'it is more blessed to GIVE, than to receive, 'for God so loved

                        the world that he GAVE his only begotten son ...'

                        But 'charity', by definition, is giving when you do not expect to be

                        repaid. When we give our time and money to a charity, we don't get a

                        check back in the mail !

                        Thus, charity is a HIGHER form of giving than just love.

                        When Jesus gave His life for us He was being 'charitable'. He was

                        giving and getting nothing in return. What He gave to us we can NEVER

                        FULLY repay. Giving when you expect 'nothing back' is charity.

                        Thus, the full meaning is in the King James: "... faith, hope,

                        CHARITY, these three; but the greatest of these is CHARITY".
                        LOL.....

                        Then why didn't the KJV say....

                        God was so charitable to the world that He gave His only begotten Son???????

                        You can't make this stuff up. You take a valid verse from the KJV and explain it away in your atempts to explain away a mistake in the KJV..... What totallly senseless comments.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                          LOL.....

                          Then why didn't the KJV say....

                          God was so charitable to the world that He gave His only begotten Son???????

                          You can't make this stuff up. You take a valid verse from the KJV and explain it away in your atempts to explain away a mistake in the KJV..... What totallly senseless comments.
                          Because God was expecting something in return.........the salvation of his elect......you loose......again.
                          No conviction,No conversion
                          John 16:8
                          And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                            Because God was expecting something in return.........the salvation of his elect......you loose......again.
                            That isn't what you said.... Remember?

                            The Bible is very clear about giving: 'GIVE EXPECTING NOTHING in

                            return', 'it is more blessed to GIVE, than to receive, 'for God so loved

                            the world that he GAVE his only begotten son ...'


                            There you go making it up as you go again. You can't keep your tale straight.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                              That isn't what you said.... Remember?

                              The Bible is very clear about giving: 'GIVE EXPECTING NOTHING in

                              return', 'it is more blessed to GIVE, than to receive, 'for God so loved

                              the world that he GAVE his only begotten son ...'


                              There you go making it up as you go again. You can't keep your tale straight.
                              Focus we were talking about love and charity.

                              It went right over your head .....think on it maybe you will get it ......but I doubt it.
                              No conviction,No conversion
                              John 16:8
                              And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                              Comment

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