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The "one God"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    Then would you address this NT testimony--and explain how you fit it into the theology preached here?

    1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    1 Peter 1:3--King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    Please do correlate to us how the very God of the NT is separated out from the Biblical NT "one God"--and testifies He also has a God and Father?

    Here is the LDS explanation--(by an Evangelical)


    "You’ve Seen One Elohim, You’ve Seen Them All? A Critique of Mormonism’s Use of Psalm----Michael S. Heiser

    https://publications.mi.byu.edu/publ...7e13Heiser.pdf

    4. The denial statements of Isaiah and elsewhere (“there is no god beside me”) do not constitute denials of the existence of other <ĕlōhîm. Rather, they are statements of Yahweh’s incomparability."


    So--what is your explanation?
    I do not care a flying tiddly wink what Heiser has written. He is entitled to his opinion. I can read Ps. 82 for myself and see that the "gods" that judged unjustly are HUMAN judges. Again, WHY would OTHER "gods" be judging Israel? What did God do--outsource judges for Israel, by appointing other "gods" out there in the universe, so He could go on vacation? Of course, Mormons believe their God lives near a star named "Kolob" so maybe in Mormonism, their God needed to outsource other "gods" to judge Israel, since their God lives someplace else....SO, IF these are other deities judging Israel--WHY would they judge unjustly? Wouldn't that make them sinners? Demons, like Satan and his ilk?

    I am just using the Bible--and it says over and over again there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. And all others called "god" are so-called and by nature NO gods. Ergo, these "gods" in Ps. 82 are just men with great power appointed by God to judge the people, but they have done so unjustly and God is lambasting them for it.--and reminding them that, despite their power, they will die like men and fall like any ruler. No different than any other human being.
    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
    "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
    "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
      I do not care a flying tiddly wink what Heiser has written.
      Very well--then you should care what the Biblical NT writers testified to:

      1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
      6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

      1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
      5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

      Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
      4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
      5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
      6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

      1 Peter 1:3--King James Version (KJV)
      3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

      John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
      3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

      Again--how do you collate the Biblical NT witness above--which separates out the "one God"--from God the Son--and testifies God the Son(the God of the OT)--has a God and Father also--and it's the "one God" of the Biblical NT--with the theology espoused here?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
        I am just using the Bible--and it says over and over again there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD.
        Is that a reference to this "one God"?

        1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
        6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

        1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
        5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

        Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
        4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
        5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
        6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

        1 Peter 1:3--King James Version (KJV)
        3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

        John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
        3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

        Sorry, Bonnie--but the Biblical NT writers separated out God the Son from the "one God"--and designated the "one God" as the God and Father of God the Son.

        How do you explain that?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
          I am just using the Bible--and it says over and over again there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. And all others called "god" are so-called and by nature NO gods. Ergo, these "gods" in Ps. 82 are just men with great power appointed by God to judge the people,
          That only identifies who the gods are. You would have to make them go away in order to justify the theology pawned here.

          their God needed to outsource other "gods" to judge Israel, since their God lives someplace else....
          God has already "outsourced" judgment to the saints:

          1 Corinthians 6:1-3--- King James Version (KJV)
          1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
          2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
          3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

          Which--seeing the exalted saints will sit on the throne of God--that makes sense to me:

          Revelation 3:21--- King James Version (KJV)
          21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
            --and reminding them that, despite their power, they will die like men
            That's not significant evidence they are not gods--especially seeing God the Son was subjected to mortality--and died also.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by oceancoast View Post

              False.., if you actually would read what the bible say in the context of from who, to whom and when it was written the meaning is rather apparent
              To Joe and his victims, obviously it is according to his concocted version of how things are.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                Not this again!!! What you fail to explain is that the RSV and NRSV are the ONLY Bible translations that have this translation of "according to the number of the gods." Are you suggesting that YHWH was God only of the Hebrews and there were other existing, real gods over the other peoples/countries? Did YHWH appoint demi-gods over the other nations? If so, where are they now since some of these nations don't even exist anymore, that existed when Deuteronomy was first written down.

                But the DSS has "according to the number of the SONS of God" in this verse, which would simply mean the peoples God created. Paul seems to understand this, when he said here:



                Also what you seem to forget is what the REST of Deuteronomy 32 says in the NRSV:



                This is what comes of not taking the entire Bible into consideration, but isolating verses and chapters.
                You apparently did take the time to read my post. It addresses the rest of the song of moses. And I pointed out exactly what the dss text says been elohim
                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                  I do not care a flying tiddly wink what Heiser has written. He is entitled to his opinion
                  of course.. you opinion is the inerrant one... but he is in fact able to read the ancient Hebrew in context. You apparently can't and only rely on your flawed opinion



                  .
                  I can read Ps. 82 for myself and see that the "gods" that judged unjustly are HUMAN judges
                  here you prove my point
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                  We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                    of course.. you opinion is the inerrant one... but he is in fact able to read the ancient Hebrew in context. You apparently can't and only rely on your flawed opinion



                    . here you prove my point
                    I never said my "opinion" was "inerrant." And being able to read ancient Hebrew is no guarantee that one's opinion about what the Bible means is correct. One can be just as wrong in another language as in English. And there is often a lot of scholastic opinion out there.

                    But I still say the Psalm is clear about who and what these "gods" are. Because if they refer to deities other than YHWH--what were they doing judging Israel? When Israel is YHWH's people? And since when would deities judge UNJUSTLY? Wouldn't that make them sinners? Demons, even, like Satan?

                    Now PEOPLE--they can and often do judge unjustly. All the time, and did so in ancient Israel, too. Here is one example:

                    1 Samuel 8 New International Version (NIV)

                    Israel Asks for a King


                    8 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel’s leaders.[a]2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.
                    Samuel was the last of Israel's judges. The footnote says the word for "leaders" was traditionally rendered "judges."

                    So, here we have HUMAN judges, judging unjustly and accepting bribes. Imagine that....where were these "gods"--these other supposed divine beings--when judging in Israel needed to be done? Why relegate judgment to mere human beings? IF these other "gods" are supposed to judge Israel?

                    Here is another about the judges:

                    The Appointment of Leaders (NIV, Deut. 1)


                    9 At that time I said to you, “You are too heavy a burden for me to carry alone. 10 The Lord your God has increased your numbers so that today you are as numerous as the stars in the sky. 11 May the Lord, the God of your ancestors, increase you a thousand times and bless you as he has promised! 12 But how can I bear your problems and your burdens and your disputes all by myself? 13 Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.”

                    14 You answered me, “What you propose to do is good.”

                    15 So I took the leading men of your tribes, wise and respected men, and appointed them to have authority over you—as commanders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens and as tribal officials.16 And I charged your judges at that time, “Hear the disputes between your people and judge fairly, whether the case is between two Israelites or between an Israelite and a foreigner residing among you. 17 Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and great alike. Do not be afraid of anyone, for judgment belongs to God. Bring me any case too hard for you, and I will hear it.” 18 And at that time I told you everything you were to do.
                    So, here we have Moses appointing judges, and telling them to "judge fairly...for judgment belongs to God."

                    So, where are these other divine, lesser "gods"? Why aren't THEY judging the children of Israel? Why don't these verses say to take the people to the gods and let THEM judge?

                    Here is one more:

                    Deuteronomy 25 New International Version (NIV)

                    25 When people have a dispute, they are to take it to court and the judges will decide the case, acquitting the innocent and condemning the guilty. 2 If the guilty person deserves to be beaten, the judge shall make them lie down and have them flogged in his presence with the number of lashes the crime deserves, 3 but the judge must not impose more than forty lashes. If the guilty party is flogged more than that, your fellow Israelite will be degraded in your eyes.
                    Again, why are mere human judges rendering judgment? Where are these "gods" who are apparently supposed to be judging Israel? Why don't these verses say to take the dispute to these divine "gods" and let them decide?


                    No,I think the word "gods" in Ps. 82:6 is used in irony, for judges/leaders who were full of themselves with their power, so that they felt almost like gods. But the Psalmist brings them down to earth by having God lambaste them for judging unjustly and reminding them that they will "die like men" and "fall like any prince."
                    Last edited by Bonnie; 03-13-18, 12:58 PM.
                    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                    "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                    "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                      Very well--then you should care what the Biblical NT writers testified to:

                      1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
                      6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

                      1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
                      5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

                      Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
                      4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
                      5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
                      6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

                      1 Peter 1:3--King James Version (KJV)
                      3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

                      John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
                      3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

                      Again--how do you collate the Biblical NT witness above--which separates out the "one God"--from God the Son--and testifies God the Son(the God of the OT)--has a God and Father also--and it's the "one God" of the Biblical NT--with the theology espoused here?
                      i have answered this question many times, dberrie. But it does no good; you ignore what I write.

                      https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/cu...heology/page12

                      post no. 172.

                      And I have also dealt with the verses about Ps. 82, over and over and over again, in this link and on here, and so have many other people. But again, our points and other Bible verses are ignored. This one link shows this over and over and over again, about a couple of subjects. You ask us to deal with your verses and points and ask that we answer you--and we do--but we never receive the same courtesy. WHY?

                      When are you going finally to answer all of MY questions?
                      Last edited by Bonnie; 03-13-18, 01:11 PM.
                      "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                      "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                      "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                      "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                      "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                        Then would you address this NT testimony--and explain how you fit it into the theology preached here?

                        1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
                        6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

                        1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
                        5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

                        Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
                        4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
                        5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
                        6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

                        1 Peter 1:3--King James Version (KJV)
                        3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

                        John 17:3---King James Version (KJV)
                        3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

                        Please do correlate to us how the very God of the NT is separated out from the Biblical NT "one God"--and testifies He also has a God and Father?

                        Here is a LDS explanation--(by an Evangelical)


                        "You’ve Seen One Elohim, You’ve Seen Them All? A Critique of Mormonism’s Use of Psalm----Michael S. Heiser

                        https://publications.mi.byu.edu/publ...7e13Heiser.pdf

                        4. The denial statements of Isaiah and elsewhere (“there is no god beside me”) do not constitute denials of the existence of other <ĕlōhîm. Rather, they are statements of Yahweh’s incomparability."


                        So--what is your explanation?
                        Well, your link from this Michael Hesier you provided answers to your questions about how Christ and God the Father can be of one Essence.. But then, you would have to read through it fully to determine that.


                        https://publications.mi.byu.edu/publ...7e13Heiser.pdf

                        We are left then with a situation: How can Jesus be the unique son of God and yet there be abundant testimony to many heavenly sons of God in the Hebrew Bible? The answer is straightforward—this Son is one with the Father. He is utterly unique. Jesus is the coregent <ĕlōhîm, and no other <ĕlōhîm can say that. Putting all the Johannine discourse together and taking the quotation in context of Jesus’s claim to oneness with the Father makes this a powerful witness to the fact that Jesus was of the same essence as the Father. The Jewish authorities got the message, too. One wonders why, if the Mormon view is correct— that Jesus was just claiming to be one of many species-equal <ĕlōhîm because of the divine image—the Jews charged him with blasphemy---quote from link above

                        You are arguing after all here for your Two Gods, are you not?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by The Barrd View Post
                          So, how many gods do you think there are, OC?
                          according to the Bible and my faith

                          as in fact there are many gods and many lords—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
                          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                          We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                            But I still say the Psalm is clear about who and what these "gods" are. Because if they refer to deities other than YHWH--what were they doing judging Israel?

                            Bonnie--I'm not sure you are clear on Psalm 82. Where does it say in Psalm 82 they are judging Israel?

                            To bring you up to speed on some of the scholarly work since the discovery and examination of the Ugarit text:

                            The scholars have now concluded--and are in consensus--that Israel did believe in the reality of the Divine Council of the gods.

                            Most might believe Psalm 82 is possibly a reference to that Council:

                            Psalm 82:1--- King James Version (KJV)
                            God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

                            According to the Ugarit text--the Divine council consisted of Elohim, His wife Asherah--and their seventy divine sons of God.

                            They now believe there is a correlation between the division of the earth into 70 different parts as an indication of the different sons receiving a portion--Jesus Christ's portion being Israel.



                            ABSTRACT THE DIVINE COUNCIL IN LATE CANONICAL AND NON-CANONICAL SECOND TEMPLE JEWISH LITERATURE

                            Michael S. Heiser Under the supervision of Professor Michael V. Fox At the University of Wisconsin-Madison

                            http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cg...ontext=fac_dis


                            Biblical scholarship has reached a consensus with respect to the presence of a divine assembly of gods in Israel’s faith. Prior to the sixth century B.C.E., Israelite religion underwent an evolution from an initial polytheism to a firm monolatry, where the other gods of the divine council were tolerated but not worshipped. The religious crisis of Israel’s early sixth century B.C.E. exile prompted the scribes to obscure the council in the canonical texts and compose new material declaring that Yahweh had punished Israel for her sins, brought her out of bondage, and put the other gods to death. This historical turnabout and its literary response marked the birth of true monotheism in Israel, where no other gods existed except Yahweh.

                            This reconstruction is plagued by numerous difficulties. There are hundreds of references to other gods in a divine council in exilic and post-exilic canonical texts and the non-canonical writings of Judaism’s Second Temple period. The context for these references disallows the conclusion that the writers are speaking of idols or of the beliefs of pagans. Rather, they reflect the worldview of late Israelite religion and Second Temple Judaism. This worldview included the belief in a deified vice-regent who ruled the gods at the behest of the high God. So transparent was this divine vice regency that Second Temple Jewish authors wrote of a deified second power in heaven. The rhetoric of Deuteronomy and Deutero-Isaiah that there are no other gods besides Yahweh fails as proof of the consensus view, since the same language is used in monolatrous preexilic texts and fails to account for the plethora of references to other gods in late Jewish writings. This dissertation calls the consensus view of the development of monotheism in Israel into question by demonstrating that belief in a divine council survived the exile. As a result, this dissertation posits that the survival of Israel’s pre-exilic divine council has greater explanatory power than the consensus view of the development of monotheism with respect to divine plurality in late canonical and non-canonical Second Temple period texts.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

                              Well, your link from this Michael Hesier you provided answers to your questions about how Christ and God the Father can be of one Essence.. But then, you would have to read through it fully to determine that.


                              https://publications.mi.byu.edu/publ...7e13Heiser.pdf

                              We are left then with a situation: How can Jesus be the unique son of God and yet there be abundant testimony to many heavenly sons of God in the Hebrew Bible? The answer is straightforward—this Son is one with the Father. He is utterly unique. Jesus is the coregent <ĕlōhîm, and no other <ĕlōhîm can say that. Putting all the Johannine discourse together and taking the quotation in context of Jesus’s claim to oneness with the Father makes this a powerful witness to the fact that Jesus was of the same essence as the Father. The Jewish authorities got the message, too. One wonders why, if the Mormon view is correct— that Jesus was just claiming to be one of many species-equal <ĕlōhîm because of the divine image—the Jews charged him with blasphemy---quote from link above

                              You are arguing after all here for your Two Gods, are you not?
                              I'm not sure you understand what Heiser just said.. He saying that Jesus was 'co-regent' with the Father.. But he is NOT the Father.. This is very much the LDS Doctrine of the Godhead.. The Son is one with the Father in purpose. The Father, Son and Holy Spirits are co-regents in Godhead. As LDS we can also explain how the Perfect Harmony happens through "Divine investiture" The Son is not the Father, but in fact a completely separate and distinct person (Being) with his own will and consciousness, but the Father has given the Son full authority to act in the Name of the Father for all things pertaining to this world. In the end the Son will submit it all Back to the Father and submit himself to the Father. See 1 Cor 15
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                              We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by oceancoast View Post

                                according to the Bible and my faith

                                as in fact there are many gods and many lords—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
                                My, what a selective quoter you are, OC! You forgot the quote IN CONTEXT:

                                4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one. 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
                                See? An idol is "nothing" in the world, i.e., has NO real existence. So, these other "gods" are not even real. But Paul reiterates that there is NO GOD BUT ONE. Get that? ONE God.

                                Paul says this also:

                                (ESV, Gal. 4) Paul's Concern for the Galatians


                                8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
                                And from the NASB:

                                Psalm 96:5-7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)


                                5 For all the gods of the peoples are [a]idols,
                                But the Lord made the heavens.
                                6 Splendor and majesty are before Him,
                                Strength and beauty are in His sanctuary.
                                The footnote says "non-existent things."

                                These other "gods" are not real. They are so-called gods. In another passage in the OT, it says that the idols are demons. I think that means that demons are always behind idol worship. But that doesn't make these idols deity.
                                "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                                "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                                "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                                "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                                "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

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