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Who spoke Isaiah 65:1-7: YHWH, Jesus, or the Heavenly Father?

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  • Who spoke Isaiah 65:1-7: YHWH, Jesus, or the Heavenly Father?

    The prophet Isaiah attributes the subject scripture to YHWH (verse 7). Paul attributes the words to Christ Jesus (Romans 10:20-21) speaking through the prophet to the Gentiles and to Israel.

    Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

    “I have been found by those who did not seek me;
    I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

    But of Israel he [Lord Jesus Christ] says,

    “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”


    This question is mainly for Unnies who believe that YHWH is the heavenly Father of Jesus.

    The question is simple, why does an apostle attribute these words to Christ Jesus when the prophet attributes them to YHWH?

    A) Because the apostle is wrong. The Son cannot be speaking because YHWH is the heavenly Father.
    B) Because YHWH Elohim is the Son.
    C) Because Isaiah got it wrong or the scripture is corrupted.
    D) I don’t know and don’t care because it conflicts with what I want to believe.
    E) God the Father spoke them but in his modal role as Son.

    (Isaiah 65:1-7)
    1 I let myself be sought out by those who did not ask me, be found by those who did not seek me. I said, "Here I am, here I am," to a nation that did not call on my name.

    2 I held out my hands all day long to a disobedient people, who walk in a way that is not good, pursuing their own inclinations;

    3 a people who continually provoke me to my face, they keep sacrificing in gardens and waving their hands on stone altars;

    4 who sit inside tombs, and spend the night in secret places; who eat swine’s flesh, with the broth of detestable things in their pots;

    5 who say, "Keep to yourself; do not touch me, I am too holy for you." Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day long.

    6 See, it stands written before me: I will not keep silent, but I will repay; I will indeed repay into their laps

    7 both your iniquities and your ancestors’ iniquities together, says the LORD (YHWH)
    Last edited by docphin; 07-13-18, 05:49 PM.
    We shall not injure God by remaining ignorant of Him, but shall deprive ourselves of His friendship.

  • #2
    Originally posted by docphin View Post
    The prophet Isaiah attributes the subject scripture to YHWH (verse 7). Paul attributes the words to Christ Jesus (Romans 10:20-21) speaking through the prophet to the Gentiles and to Israel.

    Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

    “I have been found by those who did not seek me;
    I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

    But of Israel he [Lord Jesus Christ] says,

    “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”


    This question is mainly for Unnies who believe that YHWH is the heavenly Father of Jesus.

    The question is simple, why does an apostle attribute these words to Christ Jesus when the prophet attributes them to YHWH?

    A) Because the apostle is wrong. The Son cannot be speaking because YHWH is the heavenly Father.
    B) Because YHWH Elohim is the Son.
    C) Because Isaiah got it wrong or the scripture is corrupted.
    D) I don’t know and don’t care because it conflicts with what I want to believe.
    E) God the Father spoke them but in his modal role as Son.

    (Isaiah 65:1-7)
    1 I let myself be sought out by those who did not ask me, be found by those who did not seek me. I said, "Here I am, here I am," to a nation that did not call on my name.

    2 I held out my hands all day long to a disobedient people, who walk in a way that is not good, pursuing their own inclinations;

    3 a people who continually provoke me to my face, they keep sacrificing in gardens and waving their hands on stone altars;

    4 who sit inside tombs, and spend the night in secret places; who eat swine’s flesh, with the broth of detestable things in their pots;

    5 who say, "Keep to yourself; do not touch me, I am too holy for you." Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day long.

    6 See, it stands written before me: I will not keep silent, but I will repay; I will indeed repay into their laps

    7 both your iniquities and your ancestors’ iniquities together, says the LORD (YHWH)
    Why have you inserted Jesus into the verses in Roman's 10:20-21? That's a fabrication.

    What does Jesus name, Yehoshua in Hebrew mean?

    Isaiah 63:16 spells out who the Lord is nicely.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
      Why have you inserted Jesus into the verses in Roman's 10:20-21? That's a fabrication.

      What does Jesus name, Yehoshua in Hebrew mean?
      Because the entire chapter is about the the Lord Jesus Christ and confessing him.

      (Romans 10:9-21)
      if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

      For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says,

      “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

      How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”

      So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

      But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for

      “Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
      and their words to the ends of the world.”

      But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says,

      “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;
      with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”

      Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

      I have been found by those who did not seek me;
      I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”


      But of Israel he says,

      All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
      Last edited by docphin; 07-13-18, 06:17 PM.
      We shall not injure God by remaining ignorant of Him, but shall deprive ourselves of His friendship.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by docphin View Post

        Because the entire chapter is about the the Lord Jesus Christ and confessing him.

        (Romans 10:9-21)
        if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

        For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says,

        “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

        How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”

        So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

        But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for

        “Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
        and their words to the ends of the world.”

        But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says,

        “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;
        with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”

        Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

        “I have been found by those who did not seek me;
        I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

        But of Israel he says,

        “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
        That's a shame you're taking verses out of context.

        What's Jesus name mean in Hebrew?

        Isaiah 63:16 spells out who the Lord is. Isaiah is all about the Father, YHWH.

        By the way, Paul was a known apostate. That says it all.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
          That's a shame you're taking verses out of context.
          What's Jesus name mean in Hebrew?
          Isaiah 63:16 spells out who the Lord is. Isaiah is all about the Father, YHWH.
          By the way, Paul was a known apostate. That says it all.
          Did you miss the words of Paul at Romans 10:17 where he explicitly references the old testament scriptures as “the words of Christ”? I will take your answer as “A” because you call the apostle an apostate. Thanks for playing.
          Last edited by docphin; 07-13-18, 06:33 PM.
          We shall not injure God by remaining ignorant of Him, but shall deprive ourselves of His friendship.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by docphin View Post
            Did you miss the words of Paul at Romans 10:17 where he explicitly references the old testament scriptures as “the words of Christ”? I will take your answer as D—you don’t care because it conflicts with what you want to believe. Thanks for playing.
            You think that makes a difference? You avoid the context of Isaiah being about the Father. You can't change that.

            But Paul the apostate twists scriptures.

            I'll stick with the original. Thanks for pointing out how messed up the NT and Paul are.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
              You think that makes a difference? You avoid the context of Isaiah being about the Father. You can't change that.

              But Paul the apostate twists scriptures.

              I'll stick with the original. Thanks for pointing out how messed up the NT and Paul are.
              If that is the first time Paul’s opinion has been pointed out to you then, I guess, your welcome.
              We shall not injure God by remaining ignorant of Him, but shall deprive ourselves of His friendship.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by docphin View Post
                The question is simple
                About as simple as they come, in fact and the answer is equally simple. GOD spoke the words in question.

                Next Question??

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
                  That's a shame you're taking verses out of context.

                  What's Jesus name mean in Hebrew?

                  Isaiah 63:16 spells out who the Lord is. Isaiah is all about the Father, YHWH.

                  By the way, Paul was a known apostate. That says it all.
                  63:16 speaks of The Lord(YHWH)as being The Father of Israel, NOT The Father as The Lord of Israel.
                  The use of Father in the OT is NOT The same as in The NT.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                    About as simple as they come, in fact and the answer is equally simple. GOD spoke the words in question.

                    Next Question??
                    I figured that would be your response, so I added option “D” because you usually respond with “don't know” or “don’t care”. Thanks Bob.
                    We shall not injure God by remaining ignorant of Him, but shall deprive ourselves of His friendship.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by docphin View Post

                      If that is the first time Paul’s opinion has been pointed out to you then, I guess, your welcome.
                      I've pointed out Paul's apostasy before.

                      What does Jesus name mean in Hebrew?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
                        63:16 speaks of The Lord(YHWH)as being The Father of Israel, NOT The Father as The Lord of Israel.
                        The use of Father in the OT is NOT The same as in The NT.
                        No difference.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post

                          I've pointed out Paul's apostasy before.

                          What does Jesus name mean in Hebrew?
                          I think it means salvation. If so, that would support Paul’s contention that YHWH and Yeshua are Christ and Son of God delivering salvation and judgment to our world, would it not?
                          We shall not injure God by remaining ignorant of Him, but shall deprive ourselves of His friendship.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
                            No difference.
                            HUGE difference. In the OT the term Father referred to The Lord of Israel.
                            In The NT The Father is used in contradistinction to The Son and He is The Father of all believers in The Son and has a personal relatrionship whith each individual believer, something which did NOT exist in the OT.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by docphin View Post

                              I think it means salvation. If so, that would support Paul’s contention that YHWH and Yeshua are Christ and Son of God delivering salvation to our world, would it not?
                              It means YHWH is salvation, not the son. Just like Isaiah 63:16 points out.

                              thanks for playing.. .

                              Shabbat cometh.. . bye bye.

                              Comment

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