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Who spoke Isaiah 65:1-7: YHWH, Jesus, or the Heavenly Father?

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  • Who spoke Isaiah 65:1-7: YHWH, Jesus, or the Heavenly Father?

    The prophet Isaiah attributes the subject scripture to YHWH (verse 7). Paul attributes the words to Christ Jesus (Romans 10:20-21) speaking through the prophet to the Gentiles and to Israel.

    Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

    “I have been found by those who did not seek me;
    I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

    But of Israel he [Lord Jesus Christ] says,

    “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”


    This question is mainly for Unnies who believe that YHWH is the heavenly Father of Jesus.

    The question is simple, why does an apostle attribute these words to Christ Jesus when the prophet attributes them to YHWH?

    A) Because the apostle is wrong. The Son cannot be speaking because YHWH is the heavenly Father.
    B) Because YHWH Elohim is the Son.
    C) Because Isaiah got it wrong or the scripture is corrupted.
    D) I don’t know and don’t care because it conflicts with what I want to believe.
    E) God the Father spoke them but in his modal role as Son.

    (Isaiah 65:1-7)
    1 I let myself be sought out by those who did not ask me, be found by those who did not seek me. I said, "Here I am, here I am," to a nation that did not call on my name.

    2 I held out my hands all day long to a disobedient people, who walk in a way that is not good, pursuing their own inclinations;

    3 a people who continually provoke me to my face, they keep sacrificing in gardens and waving their hands on stone altars;

    4 who sit inside tombs, and spend the night in secret places; who eat swine’s flesh, with the broth of detestable things in their pots;

    5 who say, "Keep to yourself; do not touch me, I am too holy for you." Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day long.

    6 See, it stands written before me: I will not keep silent, but I will repay; I will indeed repay into their laps

    7 both your iniquities and your ancestors’ iniquities together, says the LORD (YHWH)
    Last edited by docphin; 07-13-18, 05:49 PM.

  • Ironman3
    replied
    Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
    I discerned NO such message.
    Well, you don't understand much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironman3
    replied
    Originally posted by docphin View Post
    The man of lawlessness is the one who lusts for vengeance, who boasts in himself, who is proud of his jealousy, who condemns the world, who commands human fathers that they should stone their daughters on their front door step for not being virgins on their wedding night, who rejoices in the death of sinners, who imposes a burden on men which cannot be kept by anyone. We all know who that is, if we search our hearts, but Paul could not write his name out of caution for those Jewish converts who would have been persecuted for their faith in Christ Jesus, the only proper name that saves. Whereas, I have no restraint placed on me so I may speak freely.
    Sounds like Paul the apostate. Even Eusebius acknowledges that Nazarenes, held Paul as such.

    Leave a comment:


  • john wilcox
    replied
    Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
    The central message is you're wrong.
    I discerned NO such message.

    Leave a comment:


  • docphin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
    Paul used reverse psychology to warn others of the man of lawlessness when he was it.

    Therefore anyone (like Paul the apostate) who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    The man of lawlessness is the one who lusts for vengeance, who boasts in himself, who is proud of his jealousy, who condemns the world, who commands human fathers that they should stone their daughters on their front door step for not being virgins on their wedding night, who rejoices in the death of sinners, who imposes a burden on men which cannot be kept by anyone. We all know who that is, if we search our hearts, but Paul could not write his name out of caution for those Jewish converts who would have been persecuted for their faith in Christ Jesus, the only proper name that saves. Whereas, I have no restraint placed on me so I may speak freely.
    Last edited by docphin; 08-12-18, 05:13 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironman3
    replied
    Originally posted by docphin View Post
    The Law foretells the coming of Christ Jesus, whom you reject. And those who love Christ, as Paul did, wait for everything foretold by the Law until they are accomplished. I have no disagreement with Christ. Why do you quote his words when you reject his authority as Christ and Savior? I know, because you are a wolf in sheeps clothing come here to spoil the faith of young Christians. You pretend to use the New Testament for your purpose, but you actually reject it.
    Paul used reverse psychology to warn others of the man of lawlessness when he was it.

    Therefore anyone (like Paul the apostate) who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Why aren't you following Jesus teachings?

    Leave a comment:


  • docphin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
    Since the apostate Paul wrote most of the NT, you need to be cautious with his words.

    By the way, you forgot this in Matthew 5:18-19:

    For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone (like Paul the apostate) who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Guess where Paul is going? His teachings are warned about by Jesus himself, and negated.
    The Law foretells the coming of Christ Jesus, whom you reject. And those who love Christ, as Paul did, wait for everything foretold by the Law until they are accomplished. I have no disagreement with Christ. Why do you quote his words when you reject his authority as Christ and Savior? I know, because you are a wolf in sheeps clothing come here to spoil the faith of young Christians. You pretend to use the New Testament for your purpose, but you actually reject it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironman3
    replied
    Originally posted by docphin View Post

    The commandements of the Mosaic Law are abolished because Christ Jesus established a Law of of his own, that is, the Law of Christ. With the abolishment of the Mosaic Law comes a new Law (the Law of Christ; 1 Corinthians 9:21), a new priesthood (the Melchizedek priesthood,—which is not actually new but old; Hebrews 7:12-15), and a new sacrifice (the Lamb of God). Face it, as a Judaizer, you are subject to a useless covenant that saves no one and has been replaced by a better covenant. In modern parlance, you are as extinct as a dinosauar.
    Since the apostate Paul wrote most of the NT, you need to be cautious with his words.

    By the way, you forgot this in Matthew 5:18-19:

    For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone (like Paul the apostate) who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Guess where Paul is going? His teachings are warned about by Jesus himself, and negated. This makes your words false as well. So, I don't pay attention to your attacks. Their funny in light of your hypocritical teachings

    Why do you keep skipping out on providing proof of YHWH being a first born God?
    Last edited by Ironman3; 08-12-18, 04:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • e v e
    replied
    He our God came here and is our messiah. Same God who made Eden. Same God of Abraham, same promise we will be restored. Every word by every prophet of Him our God being utterly valid right now. The entire scripture written for us,
    the prisoners, so we remember Him until our release from Egypt.

    Soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • docphin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
    Fulfill doesn't me the commandments are abolished. Once fulfilled one day, the next day follows with fulfilling more commandments. And for the rest of us, heaven and earth are still here and the commandments apply. Jesus wouldn't have said Matthew 7:23 otherwise. You're not entering his kingdom. His words.

    You have a typical lame answer.

    Now, how about you answer where YHWH is a firstborn? Stop wimping out.
    The commandements of the Mosaic Law are abolished because Christ Jesus established a Law of of his own, that is, the Law of Christ. With the abolishment of the Mosaic Law comes a new Law (the Law of Christ; 1 Corinthians 9:21), a new priesthood (the Melchizedek priesthood,—which is not actually new but old; Hebrews 7:12-15), and a new sacrifice (the Lamb of God). Face it, as a Judaizer, you are subject to a useless covenant that saves no one and has been replaced by a better covenant. In modern parlance, you are as extinct as a dinosauar oblivious to your coming end.
    Last edited by docphin; 08-12-18, 04:44 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironman3
    replied
    Originally posted by docphin View Post
    You pose a perfect example for the importance of context, and how the devil tries to trick others, for you reference a portion of the Lord’s words, yet you reject those words of his asserting that he fulfills the Law as Savior and Christ. (1) The Law predicted his coming and those parts of the Law were fulfilled in him, but not without
    “abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.” (Galatians 2:15)
    ——-
    1) “I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” Matthew 5:17

    You are a spoiler and not even an honest debater. You pick verses from the New Testament to support your points yet you reject the authority of those who spoke and wrote the words contained within. That would be the hallmark of a wolf in sheep’s clothing come here to spoil the faith of young Christians.
    Fulfill doesn't mean the commandments are abolished. Once fulfilled one day, the next day follows with fulfilling more commandments. And for the rest of us, heaven and earth are still here and the commandments apply. Jesus wouldn't have said Matthew 7:23 otherwise. You're not entering his kingdom. His words.

    By the way, you forgot this in Matthew 5:18-19:

    For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone (like Paul the apostate) who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Guess where Paul is going? His teachings are warned about by Jesus himself.

    You have a typical lame answer.

    Now, how about you answer where YHWH is a firstborn? Stop wimping out.
    Last edited by Ironman3; 08-12-18, 04:41 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • docphin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
    I reject your false gods and ideas.

    Even your Messiah said the law still applies, till heaven and earth, Matthew 5:17-20. And so does Jeremiah 31 and 33.

    Why don't you reply to the link disproving your false notions about YHWH being a firstborn God?

    Interacting with you is like playing whack a mole... constant fabrications coming from your 💋. And when I whack one, another fabrication pops up.
    You pose a perfect example for the importance of context, and how the devil tries to trick others, for you reference a portion of the Lord’s words, yet you reject those words of his asserting that he fulfills the Law as Savior and Christ. (1) The Law predicted his coming and those parts of the Law were fulfilled in him, but not without
    “abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.” (Galatians 2:15)
    ——-
    1) “I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” Matthew 5:17

    You are a spoiler and not even an honest debater. You pick verses from the New Testament to support your points yet you reject the authority of those who spoke and wrote the words contained within. That would be the hallmark of a wolf in sheep’s clothing come here to spoil the faith of young Christians. Not happy with your own unfulfilled expectations (as a Judaizer), you hope to find (make) others as miserable as you.
    Last edited by docphin; 08-12-18, 04:32 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironman3
    replied
    Originally posted by docphin View Post
    Yeah, whatever. We all know that you reject Christ and his apostles, so you have nothing to offer but Judaism that has already been abolished.
    I reject your false gods and ideas.

    Even your Messiah said the law still applies, till heaven and earth, Matthew 5:17-20. And so does Jeremiah 31 and 33.

    Why don't you reply to the link disproving your false notions about YHWH being a firstborn God?

    Interacting with you is like playing whack a mole... constant fabrications coming from your 💋. And when I whack one, another fabrication pops up.
    Last edited by Ironman3; 08-12-18, 03:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • docphin
    replied
    Originally posted by Ironman3 View Post
    I gave ample proof you made up stuff.

    You can't refute that YHWH is not a first born. I gave the link with verses.

    This has a dominoe effect on the rest of your theology.

    Such are the proofs of a Gnostic... empty, and false.
    Yeah, whatever. We all know that you reject Christ and his apostles, so you have nothing to offer but Judaism and its carnal rules and traditions which were replaced with something far superior.
    Last edited by docphin; 08-12-18, 03:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironman3
    replied
    Originally posted by docphin View Post
    There is no proof that will convince you because you reject Christ who fulfills the writings of the prophets. You are still waiting for your Messiah to come because you cannot accept the one who already came. You offer nothing but false accusations and denials, while I have offered and expounded many scriptures in support that Christ Jesus is the Elohim, who serves his one, true God and Father-El.
    I gave ample proof you made up stuff.

    You can't refute that YHWH is not a first born. I gave the link with verses.

    This has a dominoe effect on the rest of your theology.

    Such are the proofs of a Gnostic... empty, and false.

    By the way, it's clear Paul was an apostate and liar. He claims to have studied under Gamaliel, a Pharisee, in Acts 22:3, but wasn't tolerant like his teacher, Acts 5:34, of the Nazarenes. What a false prophet.
    Last edited by Ironman3; 08-12-18, 03:43 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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