Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

For Those Who Say Trinity is Clearly Stated in Text...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    For all of your brouh ha ha, Luther did say a fact, that the WORD "trinity" in whatever language is not Text itself.

    What you have therefore is a SUPPOSED concept in Text WITHOUT a coining term, pertaining to or referencing.

    DEMEANING the possibility of that concept even BEING in Text at all, wonderkund. I can chew my kund all day listening to WONDERKUNDS like you sir.
    Whether the WORD Trinity, or any other word, is in text or NOT means NOTHING. The TRUTH of The Trinity is clearly in text.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
      Whether the WORD Trinity, or any other word, is in text or NOT means NOTHING. The TRUTH of The Trinity is clearly in text.
      How could it be, if Shema directly refutes it sir?

      God is One. Singular. No other one but He. Mk 12 said by the scribe and affirmed by the Christ.

      When your buds in history lost Shema, they lost the WHO and ONLY WHO of God sir.

      Shema will change the Christian World.

      Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

      Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by nothead View Post

        Yes by concept but not by any singular term as in...Trinity, trinitas, tripartite, tri-prosopons, tri-anythingyouwantaboogywith.

        What you have is a concept without anything to term, as we have today. This both makes the concept itself, more UNLIKELY, and the addition of the TERM Trinity, trinitas, Plokenspurer or whatevers...an ADDITION to Text sir. An ADDITION added to authorial INTENT sir.
        And the clear CONCEPT is all we need. Trinity is the WORD which describes that CLEAR concept.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
          And the clear CONCEPT is all we need. Trinity is the WORD which describes that CLEAR concept.
          So then...the NT authors never could figure that one OUT HUH DUDER?
          Shema will change the Christian World.

          Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

          Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by nothead View Post

            How could it be, if Shema directly refutes it sir?

            God is One. Singular. No other one but He. Mk 12 said by the scribe and affirmed by the Christ.

            When your buds in history lost Shema, they lost the WHO and ONLY WHO of God sir.
            The Shema does NOT refute The Trinity except in your mind.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by nothead View Post

              So then...the NT authors never could figure that one OUT HUH DUDER?
              They REVEAL The Trinity, we DEFINE it within our language.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by nothead View Post
                Your own compatriots do not agree.

                Finally a compendium of veritable, I mean verifiable data which no one can diss, agree with.

                Luther:

                “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man.”[102]

                [102] Martin Luther, Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 2 (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2000), pp. 406-407.

                Chandler, Kegan. The God of Jesus in Light of Christian Dogma (Kindle Locations 940-942). Restoration Fellowship. Kindle Edition.

                George Joyce:

                “In Scripture there is yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together.”[103]

                [103] George Joyce, “The Blessed Trinity,” The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 15 (New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1912), p. 47.

                Indeed, we should not forget that “the word Trinity is not found in the Bible… [because] it did not find a place formally in the theology of the church until the fourth century.”[109]

                [109] R. A. Finlayson, “Trinity,” Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Vol. 3 (Westmont: IVP, Tyndale House Publishers, 1980), p. 1597, emphasis added.

                The trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God are three persons who subsist in one nature. That
                belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical
                belief.[114]

                [114] John L. McKenzie, Dictionary of the Bible (New York: Touchstone, 1995), p. 899.

                The New Catholic Encyclopedia likewise reveals that discussions of the Trinity within a first-century context are acutely anachronistic: It is difficult in the second half of the 20th century to offer a clear, objective and straightforward account of the revelation, doctrinal evolution, and the theological elaboration of the Mystery of the Trinity… Historians of dogma and systematic theologians [recognize] that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma “One God in three Persons” became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought… it was the product of three centuries of development.[115]

                [115] Thomas Carson, The New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XIV (Farmington (Farmington Hills: Gale, 2003), p. 295.

                Bruce Metzger, know that guy?

                Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon… While the New Testament writers say a great deal about God, Jesus, and the Spirit of each, no New Testament writer expounds on the relationship among the three in the detail that later Christian writers do.[116]

                [116] Bruce Metzger, Michael Coogan, The Oxford Companion to the Bible (Oxford: OUP, 1993), p. 782.


                Chandler, Kegan. The God of Jesus in Light of Christian Dogma (Kindle Location 944-12271). Restoration Fellowship. Kindle Edition.

                So then...what to do with y'ALL's scholars boys and girls?
                Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)

                6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

                Did I miss something there.

                I don’t see creator anywhere there?

                Oh I see, you just take it for Granted.


                harry



                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by nothead View Post

                  Every word I quoted, he quoted. The common perception is that this was out of context, but NO...I am only saying what I think Luther MEANT by the words I quoted.

                  We can haggle onnis all day already. You wantoo go'on with you onnis here thingybobber, Swan Song?
                  You've been corrected as to what Luther said, and even the context he said it in was linked to. Is YHWH honored by pouring your own meaning into someone else's words?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    EDITED

                    You stated, "For Those Who Say Trinity is Clearly Stated in Text...Your own compatriots do not agree." You then cited "verifiable data which no one can diss, agree with" which included Luther. I checked your "verifiable data" on Luther, and contrary to your claim, Luther did believe the concept of the Trinity was in the Bible, and could be clearly expounded from the text of scripture. I corrected your error, but instead of taking the correction, you then said, "I am only saying what I think Luther MEANT by the words I quoted." Is YHWH honored when you misquote Luther? Is YHWH honored by pouring your own meaning into his words?EDITED
                    Last edited by Mod10; 09-15-18, 08:02 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by James Swan View Post

                      You stated, "For Those Who Say Trinity is Clearly Stated in Text...Your own compatriots do not agree." You then cited "verifiable data which no one can diss, agree with" which included Luther. I checked your "verifiable data" on Luther, and contrary to your claim, Luther did believe the concept of the Trinity was in the Bible, and could be clearly expounded from the text of scripture. I corrected your error, but instead of taking the correction, you then said, "I am only saying what I think Luther MEANT by the words I quoted." Is YHWH honored when you misquote Luther? Is YHWH honored by pouring your own meaning into his words? Is YHWH honored by calling me, "a low down dirty em...pigeon"? I don't know anything about you or your theology, but I'm not in any way interested in a religious view that allows for falsehood, misrepresentation, and slander. What a strange god you worship..
                      By what you just said, I did not misQUOTE Luther, and in fact, I didnet even consider Luther to be anything BUT a Lutheran buttmutt sir.

                      Lutherans are trinitarian as we well know.

                      The point I was making was that even Luther ACKNOWLEDGED the word TRINITY or TRINITAS or TRIPARTITE or anything SIMILAR which COINS or TERMS Trinity by a single word is NOT EXTANT IN TEXT.

                      I've repeated the same thing three times, and you still don't geddit. NO WONDER we haggle on this here forum until the COWS COME HOME.
                      Shema will change the Christian World.

                      Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                      Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
                        The Shema does NOT refute The Trinity except in your mind.
                        Surely when you REdefine ONE and GOD and just WHO you are to love FIRST my dear.

                        So many of MY DEARIES lost and all alone, apart from their God, sirs and madamsirs.
                        Shema will change the Christian World.

                        Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                        Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by harry View Post
                          Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)

                          6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

                          Did I miss something there.

                          I don’t see creator anywhere there?

                          Oh I see, you just take it for Granted.


                          harry


                          Harry do you realize that this passage was for Hezekiah in the near-view and Messiah only in far view?

                          All wordings therefore have to apply to HEZEKIAH in context sir. So then, what you THINKY THINK the passage means...is not for GOD sir, lessen you believe HEZEKIAH GOD sir.

                          Martin Luther correctly translated "el gibber" as "mighty warrior." Jesus IS not the everlasting Father even by Trin standards. So then, off you go...into true interpretation HAIRY I mean HARRY.
                          Shema will change the Christian World.

                          Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                          Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
                            They REVEAL The Trinity, we DEFINE it within our language.
                            So then, the NT authors were TOO DUMB to coin Trinity using THEIR LANGUAGE HUH DUDER??
                            Shema will change the Christian World.

                            Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                            Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by nothead View Post

                              Harry do you realize that this passage was for Hezekiah in the near-view and Messiah only in far view?

                              All wordings therefore have to apply to HEZEKIAH in context sir. So then, what you THINKY THINK the passage means...is not for GOD sir, lessen you believe HEZEKIAH GOD sir.

                              Martin Luther correctly translated "el gibber" as "mighty warrior." Jesus IS not the everlasting Father even by Trin standards. So then, off you go...into true interpretation HAIRY I mean HARRY.
                              I didn’t go anyplace, tried to make a point there.

                              NO CREATOR LISTED IN THAT VERSE!!!!

                              Do some more in depth study and maybe you Will realize how BAD things really are!!!

                              Instead of trying to be a wisenheimer!

                              Once you figure it out then you’ll know why it says, few there be that find it!!!

                              that don’t mean it falls in your lap just sitting there!!!


                              harry
                              Last edited by harry; 09-15-18, 04:51 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by nothead View Post

                                Harry do you realize that this passage was for Hezekiah in the near-view and Messiah only in far view?

                                All wordings therefore have to apply to HEZEKIAH in context sir. So then, what you THINKY THINK the passage means...is not for GOD sir, lessen you believe HEZEKIAH GOD sir.

                                Martin Luther correctly translated "el gibber" as "mighty warrior." Jesus IS not the everlasting Father even by Trin standards. So then, off you go...into true interpretation HAIRY I mean HARRY.
                                Neither Hezekiah nor any other Israelitsh king was called The Mighty God and in 9:6 the Hebrew word is El Gibbor,(NOT gibber), the SAME El Gibbor as found in 10:21.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X