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For Those Who Say Trinity is Clearly Stated in Text...

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  • For Those Who Say Trinity is Clearly Stated in Text...

    Your own compatriots do not agree.

    Finally a compendium of veritable, I mean verifiable data which no one can diss, agree with.

    Luther:

    “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man.”[102]

    [102] Martin Luther, Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 2 (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2000), pp. 406-407.

    Chandler, Kegan. The God of Jesus in Light of Christian Dogma (Kindle Locations 940-942). Restoration Fellowship. Kindle Edition.

    George Joyce:

    “In Scripture there is yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together.”[103]

    [103] George Joyce, “The Blessed Trinity,” The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 15 (New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1912), p. 47.

    Indeed, we should not forget that “the word Trinity is not found in the Bible… [because] it did not find a place formally in the theology of the church until the fourth century.”[109]

    [109] R. A. Finlayson, “Trinity,” Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Vol. 3 (Westmont: IVP, Tyndale House Publishers, 1980), p. 1597, emphasis added.

    The trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God are three persons who subsist in one nature. That
    belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical
    belief.[114]

    [114] John L. McKenzie, Dictionary of the Bible (New York: Touchstone, 1995), p. 899.

    The New Catholic Encyclopedia likewise reveals that discussions of the Trinity within a first-century context are acutely anachronistic: It is difficult in the second half of the 20th century to offer a clear, objective and straightforward account of the revelation, doctrinal evolution, and the theological elaboration of the Mystery of the Trinity… Historians of dogma and systematic theologians [recognize] that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma “One God in three Persons” became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought… it was the product of three centuries of development.[115]

    [115] Thomas Carson, The New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XIV (Farmington (Farmington Hills: Gale, 2003), p. 295.

    Bruce Metzger, know that guy?

    Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon… While the New Testament writers say a great deal about God, Jesus, and the Spirit of each, no New Testament writer expounds on the relationship among the three in the detail that later Christian writers do.[116]

    [116] Bruce Metzger, Michael Coogan, The Oxford Companion to the Bible (Oxford: OUP, 1993), p. 782.


    Chandler, Kegan. The God of Jesus in Light of Christian Dogma (Kindle Location 944-12271). Restoration Fellowship. Kindle Edition.

    So then...what to do with y'ALL's scholars boys and girls?


  • Aeg4371
    replied



    Originally posted by Aeg4371 View Post
    I would hardly think it a big deal Luther would say what anyone of rational intellect can say. That this name Trinity is not verbatim in scriptures. Doesn't matter on account of this name Trinity expressed what is in scriptures. Besides we modern English only Christians are under the impression the ancients to not say ,in refuting the heretics new words and terms word needed to express the ancient. The historical fact is , most of what anti Trinitarian Oneness and Unitarians erroneously teach today, is the precise contribution and imposition by decree to Trinitarian terminology. Therefore I have no idea what point you intended to make by this thread.

    btw Luther as Wesley and John understood the Trinity as was understood by the medieval theologians .

    nothead replied
    09-14-18, 01:43 PM
    Luther was a medieval theologian genius.

    It would be very odd to have the CONCEPT of Trinity without a word to define, as in TRINITY sir. You THINKY think it is no big deal because you don't thinky THINK much sir.

    It are peoples like YOU sir who thunky thought the NT AUTHORS are less adept as your Greek thunken DOCTORS were, Doctor Zhivago.

    Yes Luther was a medieval theologian. I meant those who preceded him by several hundreds years. As in the Catholic Latin doctors.The medieval period is from the 9th to the 16th century give or take.

    Why would we need a word to define the Trinity besides God or three interrelated hypostases? We have scriptures themselves to witness God three fold dispensation. According to scriptures that would be in the subsistence or hypostasis of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit, signified by this name Trinity. We cannot divide the Word/Son and Spirit from the Father, therefore we cannot divide the substance of being very true God.

    We distinguish God in a manifold manner as the scriptures have said it, however we do not divide Him into many as you erroneously assert and suppose.
    Last edited by Aeg4371; 09-17-18, 01:43 PM. Reason: correction

    Leave a comment:


  • john wilcox
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    THIS is eternal life...that they know YOU the ONLY TRUE GOD

    ...and that they also know Christ Jesus whom YOU sent.

    Jesus is denying he is God right then and THERE sir. By saying his Father and God is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

    Only the lonely don't know what only is, can't get a gf even wif buck teef sir.
    He is denying NOTHING. He is affirming eternal life is to KNOW The Father and Son.
    BTW He said His Father is the only True God, NOT that His God is the only True God.Don't put words into His mouth. Dangerous thing to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
    Jesus denied NOTHING in John 17.
    THIS is eternal life...that they know YOU the ONLY TRUE GOD

    ...and that they also know Christ Jesus whom YOU sent.

    Jesus is denying he is God right then and THERE sir. By saying his Father and God is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

    Only the lonely don't know what only is, can't get a gf even wif buck teef sir.

    Leave a comment:


  • john wilcox
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    Um...Jesus denied it. Jn 17:3 red letter. Shema the first Command of the Judeo-Christian faith denies it. OT across the board denies it. NT across the board denies it for those who investigated.

    Jesus is not saved HERMANO??

    And WHAT pray tell is this word SAVED among the brethren sir? Saved ENDGAME or...saved from the lowly BOUNDS and ROPES and BINDINGS of sin and death in Covenant? WHICH made us sin ALLA TIME SIR??
    Jesus denied NOTHING in John 17.

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
    NOT SALVIFIC, but anyone who is saved knows it. Anyone who denies it is NOT saved.
    Um...Jesus denied it. Jn 17:3 red letter. Shema the first Command of the Judeo-Christian faith denies it. OT across the board denies it. NT across the board denies it for those who investigated.

    Jesus is not saved HERMANO??

    And WHAT pray tell is this word SAVED among the brethren sir? Saved ENDGAME or...saved from the lowly BOUNDS and ROPES and BINDINGS of sin and death in Covenant? WHICH made us sin ALLA TIME SIR??
    Last edited by nothead; 09-16-18, 04:46 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • john wilcox
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    And so...the concept is SALVIFIC even though it has no term to describe, or even a set of principles to buttress, all in one place HERMANO??
    NOT SALVIFIC, but anyone who is saved knows it. Anyone who denies it is NOT saved.

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
    The Trinity IS in the text: The WORD Trinity is NOT.
    And so...the concept is SALVIFIC even though it has no term to describe, or even a set of principles to buttress, all in one place HERMANO??

    Leave a comment:


  • john wilcox
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    No backtrack, Jack.

    You are the sushpishush one. I explained to you FOUR times now and you INSIST I said something else?

    How about just understanding I said what I said and I'll say it again...TRINITY is NOT IN TEXT. You wantoo say qualified by CONCEPT then FINE.

    I say the Word is FACTUALLY not in Text so the CONCEPT HARDLY LIKELY in Text. Know the difference and slow your pie hole down JUST A BIT ST. NICK?
    The Trinity IS in the text: The WORD Trinity is NOT.

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by James Swan View Post

    This sounds suspiciously like backpedaling.

    Your post was entitled, "For Those Who Say Trinity is Clearly Stated in Text...". I did not interpret that to mean the mere word "Trinity." If that's really what you meant, please provide a list of people who believe the word "Trinity" is found in the Bible. If there really is someone simple enough out there that believes the word "Trinity" is in the Bible, they should have their Bible taken from them so they don't hurt themselves.

    "Clearly Stated" sounds much more like you meant the concept of the Trinity, which means blatantly that you've mis-cited Luther with your cut-and-paste.
    No backtrack, Jack.

    You are the sushpishush one. I explained to you FOUR times now and you INSIST I said something else?

    How about just understanding I said what I said and I'll say it again...TRINITY is NOT IN TEXT. You wantoo say qualified by CONCEPT then FINE.

    I say the Word is FACTUALLY not in Text so the CONCEPT HARDLY LIKELY in Text. Know the difference and slow your pie hole down JUST A BIT ST. NICK?

    Leave a comment:


  • James Swan
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post
    The point I was making was that even Luther ACKNOWLEDGED the word TRINITY or TRINITAS or TRIPARTITE or anything SIMILAR which COINS or TERMS Trinity by a single word is NOT EXTANT IN TEXT.
    This sounds suspiciously like backpedaling.

    Your post was entitled, "For Those Who Say Trinity is Clearly Stated in Text...". I did not interpret that to mean the mere word "Trinity." If that's really what you meant, please provide a list of people who believe the word "Trinity" is found in the Bible. If there really is someone simple enough out there that believes the word "Trinity" is in the Bible, they should have their Bible taken from them so they don't hurt themselves.

    "Clearly Stated" sounds much more like you meant the concept of the Trinity, which means blatantly that you've mis-cited Luther with your cut-and-paste.

    Leave a comment:


  • john wilcox
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    Whud. I am a unitarian pentecostal Abrahamist Monotheist.

    "Creator" does not have to be in that passage for me, since Jesus for me is not the Creator.
    John 1:3;Col. 1:15-16; Hebrews 1:10: Rev. 3:14 says Jesus IS The creator.

    Leave a comment:


  • harry
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    Whud. I am a unitarian pentecostal Abrahamist Monotheist.

    "Creator" does not have to be in that passage for me, since Jesus for me is not the Creator.
    I’m ok with that!


    harry

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by harry View Post

    I didn’t go anyplace, tried to make a point there.

    NO CREATOR LISTED IN THAT VERSE!!!!

    Do some more in depth study and maybe you Will realize how BAD things really are!!!

    Instead of trying to be a wisenheimer!

    Once you figure it out then you’ll know why it says, few there be that find it!!!

    that don’t mean it falls in your lap just sitting there!!!


    harry
    Whud. I am a unitarian pentecostal Abrahamist Monotheist.

    "Creator" does not have to be in that passage for me, since Jesus for me is not the Creator.

    Leave a comment:


  • john wilcox
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    Harry do you realize that this passage was for Hezekiah in the near-view and Messiah only in far view?

    All wordings therefore have to apply to HEZEKIAH in context sir. So then, what you THINKY THINK the passage means...is not for GOD sir, lessen you believe HEZEKIAH GOD sir.

    Martin Luther correctly translated "el gibber" as "mighty warrior." Jesus IS not the everlasting Father even by Trin standards. So then, off you go...into true interpretation HAIRY I mean HARRY.
    Neither Hezekiah nor any other Israelitsh king was called The Mighty God and in 9:6 the Hebrew word is El Gibbor,(NOT gibber), the SAME El Gibbor as found in 10:21.

    Leave a comment:

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