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When you mention "Jesus' soul"...

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  • When you mention "Jesus' soul"...

    Originally posted by Kampioen View Post

    Does the concrete human nature and concrete divine nature of Jesus' soul constitute two concrete natures? (yes/no) ... or is it one concrete nature that is both human and divine? (yes/no)

    I say two natures, one immutable and one not, the immutable which possesses the awareness.

    When you mention "Jesus' soul", are you referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus?

    Or are you referring to the soul of the Word?

    Instead of your question, I would have thought a Trinitarian would ask...

    Does the concrete human nature and concrete divine nature of the Word constitute two concrete natures? (yes/no)


    Because many Trinitarians say God or the Word does not have a soul?

    But if you are indeed referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus...

    Then you are saying the soul of the man Christ Jesus possesses a concrete divine nature as well as a concrete human nature.

    Correct?


    In contrast to the Trinitarian view, here is an overview of what I believe...

    For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul with a spiritual body (the Word of God). God the Father created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created each of us, God himself as the Word is Jesus. At his birth, the Word exchanged his spiritual body for a natural body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, the Word regained his spiritual body and he will also give each of his elect a spiritual body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
    God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

    The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

  • #2
    Originally posted by Presentist View Post


    When you mention "Jesus' soul", are you referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus?

    Or are you referring to the soul of the Word?

    Instead of your question, I would have thought a Trinitarian would ask...

    Does the concrete human nature and concrete divine nature of the Word constitute two concrete natures? (yes/no)


    Because many Trinitarians say God or the Word does not have a soul?

    But if you are indeed referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus...

    Then you are saying the soul of the man Christ Jesus possesses a concrete divine nature as well as a concrete human nature.

    Correct?


    In contrast to the Trinitarian view, here is an overview of what I believe...

    For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul with a spiritual body (the Word of God). God the Father created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created each of us, God himself as the Word is Jesus. At his birth, the Word exchanged his spiritual body for a natural body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, the Word regained his spiritual body and he will also give each of his elect a spiritual body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
    The soul/spirit of Christ The MAN, is by nature HUMAN ONLY, just as with every MAN.
    You are attempting to blend or mix and confuse the two distinct natures of Jesus Christ.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

      The soul/spirit of Christ The MAN, is by nature HUMAN ONLY, just as with every MAN.
      You are attempting to blend or mix and confuse the two distinct natures of Jesus Christ.
      Ok, but can you answer the question...


      When a Trinitarian mentions "Jesus' soul", are they referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus?
      Or are they referring to the soul of the Word?

      In other words...

      A) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the man Christ Jesus.
      B) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the Word.
      C) Both A and B.

      I assume those are the only possible Trinitarian answers. Right?
      God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

      The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Presentist View Post

        Ok, but can you answer the question...


        When a Trinitarian mentions "Jesus' soul", are they referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus?
        Or are they referring to the soul of the Word?

        In other words...

        A) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the man Christ Jesus.
        B) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the Word.
        C) Both A and B.

        I assume those are the only possible Trinitarian answers. Right?
        A. Jesus' soul refers to the soul of the man Jesus, which is created.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Presentist View Post

          Ok, but can you answer the question...


          When a Trinitarian mentions "Jesus' soul", are they referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus?
          Or are they referring to the soul of the Word?

          In other words...

          A) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the man Christ Jesus.
          B) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the Word.
          C) Both A and B.

          I assume those are the only possible Trinitarian answers. Right?
          A) ONLY.
          Next question...........

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kampioen View Post

            Does the concrete human nature and concrete divine nature of Jesus' soul constitute two concrete natures? (yes/no) ... or is it one concrete nature that is both human and divine? (yes/no)

            I say two natures, one immutable and one not, the immutable which possesses the awareness.
            Originally posted by Presentist View Post

            A) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the man Christ Jesus.
            B) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the Word.
            C) Both A and B.
            Originally posted by Kampioen View Post

            A. Jesus' soul refers to the soul of the man Jesus, which is created.
            Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

            A) ONLY.

            So Trinitarians believe the soul of the man Jesus has two concrete natures.

            Correct?


            P.S.

            I am using the standard dictionary definitions for a concrete noun and an abstract noun.

            God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

            The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Presentist View Post

              So Trinitarians believe the soul of the man Jesus has two concrete natures.

              Correct?

              P.S.

              I am using the standard dictionary definitions for a concrete noun and an abstract noun.
              Yes and no depending on context.

              Technically the divine nature is not the soul like the divine nature is not the body. So no in that context.

              But in the sense that Jesus has two natures we can say that the soul has two natures. So yes in that context.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Presentist View Post








                So Trinitarians believe the soul of the man Jesus has two concrete natures.

                Correct?


                P.S.

                I am using the standard dictionary definitions for a concrete noun and an abstract noun.
                Concrete natures???I did NOT know natures are concrete, something which can be seen, touched, handled, etc. etc.
                BTW The MAN, Jesus Christ has ONE nature:HUMAN.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
                  Concrete natures???I did NOT know natures are concrete, something which can be seen, touched, handled, etc. etc.
                  BTW The MAN, Jesus Christ has ONE nature:HUMAN.
                  With my definition of "concrete" as "naming a real thing or class of things"...
                  Your spirit and soul and body are concrete, not abstract.
                  God is concrete, not abstract.

                  Based on your definition of "concrete"...
                  Is God concrete or abstract?

                  God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

                  The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Presentist View Post

                    With my definition of "concrete" as "naming a real thing or class of things"...
                    Your spirit and soul and body are concrete, not abstract.
                    God is concrete, not abstract.

                    Based on your definition of "concrete"...
                    Is God concrete or abstract?
                    God is A Spirit, thus is NEITHER.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

                      God is A Spirit, thus is NEITHER.

                      So according to your Trinitarian view... God is NOT a concrete noun.

                      Whereas I believe God most certainly IS a concrete noun.


                      P.S.

                      Abstract nouns are words that name things that are not concrete. In other words, nouns are either concrete or abstract, and not both or neither. This may help.

                      God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

                      The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Presentist View Post


                        So according to your Trinitarian view... God is NOT a concrete noun.

                        Whereas I believe God most certainly IS a concrete noun.


                        P.S.

                        Abstract nouns are words that name things that are not concrete. In other words, nouns are either concrete or abstract, and not both or neither. This may help.
                        A Spirit is NOT concrete nor abstract.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Presentist View Post

                          Is God concrete or abstract?
                          Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

                          God is A Spirit, thus is NEITHER.
                          Wow!


                          So according to your Trinitarian view, "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) are NOT concrete nouns.


                          John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


                          Whereas I believe "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) definitely ARE concrete nouns.


                          P.S.

                          A concrete noun refers to "a real thing".

                          Those who don't believe in the supernatural use the five natural senses to determine if something is "a real thing". So Atheists would normally agree with you that "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) are NOT concrete nouns.

                          But those who do believe in the supernatural use the natural and supernatural senses to determine if something is "a real thing". So Theists would normally agree with me that "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) definitely ARE concrete nouns.

                          God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

                          The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Presentist View Post



                            Wow!


                            So according to your Trinitarian view, "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) are NOT concrete nouns.


                            John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


                            Whereas I believe "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) definitely ARE concrete nouns.


                            P.S.

                            A concrete noun refers to "a real thing".

                            Those who don't believe in the supernatural use the five natural senses to determine if something is "a real thing". So Atheists would normally agree with you that "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) are NOT concrete nouns.

                            But those who do believe in the supernatural use the natural and supernatural senses to determine if something is "a real thing". So Theists would normally agree with me that "God" and "Spirit" (capital G and S) definitely ARE concrete nouns.
                            NOT concrete Beings or Persons.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

                              NOT concrete Beings or Persons.

                              Let me get this straight...

                              According to your Trinitarian view, "God" (capital G) is NOT a concrete Being. Correct?

                              And according to your Trinitarian view, "Spirit" (capital S) is NOT a concrete Person. Correct?

                              God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

                              The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

                              Comment

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