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When you mention "Jesus' soul"...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Presentist View Post


    When you mention "Jesus' soul", are you referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus?

    Or are you referring to the soul of the Word?
    And more importantly, HOW MANY ANGELS CAN dance on the head of a pin?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Presentist View Post

      Ok, but can you answer the question...


      When a Trinitarian mentions "Jesus' soul", are they referring to the soul of the man Christ Jesus?
      Or are they referring to the soul of the Word?

      In other words...

      A) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the man Christ Jesus.
      B) "Jesus' soul" refers to the soul of the Word.
      C) Both A and B.

      I assume those are the only possible Trinitarian answers. Right?
      ONLY a MAN has a soul/spirit.
      A) is the ONLY correct answer.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Presentist View Post


        Let me get this straight...

        According to your Trinitarian view, "God" (capital G) is NOT a concrete Being. Correct?

        And according to your Trinitarian view, "Spirit" (capital S) is NOT a concrete Person. Correct?
        NOT a concrete Being, since He CANNOT be seen, heard, touched, smelled, tasted.
        Next question...............

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
          NOT a concrete Being, since He CANNOT be seen, heard, touched, smelled, tasted.
          Next question...............

          When my friends ask me why I don't agree with the doctrine of the Trinity...

          Would it be accurate for me to say...

          For one, whereas I believe the word "God" is a concrete noun, Trinitarians believe the word "God" is an abstract noun.

          God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

          The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Presentist View Post


            When my friends ask me why I don't agree with the doctrine of the Trinity...

            Would it be accurate for me to say...

            For one, whereas I believe the word "God" is a concrete noun, Trinitarians believe the word "God" is an abstract noun.
            Trinitarians know God is A Being.
            Concrete noun???Abstract noun????Never heard any Trinitarian ever use such terminology.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

              Trinitarians know God is A Being.
              Concrete noun???Abstract noun????Never heard any Trinitarian ever use such terminology.

              Concrete nouns and abstract nouns are explained in either Middle School or High School.

              But the likely reason you do not normally hear Trinitarians using those terms is because it seems difficult to explain the doctrine of the Trinity in a way that makes any sense using those basic English concepts.


              Contrary to your Trinitarian view...

              I believe the words God, person, spirit, soul, and body are all concrete nouns.

              A person is comprised of a spirit, soul, and body, where some is material and the rest immaterial.

              I believe God became everything immaterial about the man Christ Jesus, whereas he created everything immaterial about you and me.


              What specific connection do you see between God and the man Christ Jesus?

              I ask because you have said Jesus' body was conceived and everything else was formed at his conception, so nothing about the man Christ Jesus was eternal.

              So what specifically about the man Jesus has anything to do with God in your view?


              P.S.

              For those of you who are new to this forum, here is an overview of what I believe...

              For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul with a spiritual body (the Word of God). God the Father created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created each of us, God himself as the Word is Jesus. At his birth, the Word exchanged his spiritual body for a natural body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, the Word regained his spiritual body and he will also give each of his elect a spiritual body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
              God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

              The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Presentist View Post


                Concrete nouns and abstract nouns are explained in either Middle School or High School.

                But the likely reason you do not normally hear Trinitarians using those terms is because it seems difficult to explain the doctrine of the Trinity in a way that makes any sense using those basic English concepts.


                Contrary to your Trinitarian view...

                I believe the words God, person, spirit, soul, and body are all concrete nouns.

                A person is comprised of a spirit, soul, and body, where some is material and the rest immaterial.

                I believe God became everything immaterial about the man Christ Jesus, whereas he created everything immaterial about you and me.


                What specific connection do you see between God and the man Christ Jesus?

                I ask because you have said Jesus' body was conceived and everything else was formed at his conception, so nothing about the man Christ Jesus was eternal.

                So what specifically about the man Jesus has anything to do with God in your view?


                P.S.

                For those of you who are new to this forum, here is an overview of what I believe...

                For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul with a spiritual body (the Word of God). God the Father created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created each of us, God himself as the Word is Jesus. At his birth, the Word exchanged his spiritual body for a natural body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, the Word regained his spiritual body and he will also give each of his elect a spiritual body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
                Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH. Is that specific enough for you????

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

                  Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH. Is that specific enough for you????
                  It is for me because I believe EVERYTHING immaterial about Jesus is eternal.

                  But you say NOTHING material or immaterial about Jesus is eternal.

                  So you need to be a little more specific...

                  What specific connection do you see between God and the man Christ Jesus?

                  In other words, what specifically about the man Jesus has anything to do with God in your view?

                  Kampioen says the Word is "the supernatural personal existence" of Jesus (which is a part of the human spirit/soul).

                  Is that your view as well?
                  God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

                  The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Presentist View Post

                    It is for me because I believe EVERYTHING immaterial about Jesus is eternal.

                    But you say NOTHING material or immaterial about Jesus is eternal.

                    So you need to be a little more specific...

                    What specific connection do you see between God and the man Christ Jesus?

                    In other words, what specifically about the man Jesus has anything to do with God in your view?

                    Kampioen says the Word is "the supernatural personal existence" of Jesus (which is a part of the human spirit/soul).

                    Is that your view as well?
                    Nothing concerning Jesus THE MAN is eternal, just as nothing concerning ANY man is eternal.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by john wilcox View Post

                      Nothing concerning Jesus THE MAN is eternal, just as nothing concerning ANY man is eternal.
                      I know that is what you believe.


                      So...

                      If NOTHING concerning Jesus in the FLESH is eternal, then what specifically do you mean when you say "Jesus Christ is God in the FLESH"?


                      P.S.

                      When I say "Jesus Christ is God in the FLESH", I mean everything immaterial about Jesus is eternal.
                      God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

                      The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Presentist View Post

                        I know that is what you believe.


                        So...

                        If NOTHING concerning Jesus in the FLESH is eternal, then what specifically do you mean when you say "Jesus Christ is God in the FLESH"?


                        P.S.

                        When I say "Jesus Christ is God in the FLESH", I mean everything immaterial about Jesus is eternal.
                        Everything concerning Jesus The Son of God is eternal.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
                          Everything concerning Jesus The Son of God is eternal.
                          I do not think flesh is eternal but Jesus is eternal just as God is eternal but the Son of God had a beginning!

                          God bless you,

                          SeventhDay

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
                            Everything concerning Jesus The Son of God is eternal.

                            I would agree that everything IMMATERIAL concerning Jesus the Son of God is eternal.

                            But your statement we are discussing is... "Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH."

                            If you believe NOTHING concerning Jesus IN THE FLESH is eternal, then...

                            What specifically do you mean when you say "Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH"?

                            I say it means that everything immaterial about the man Christ Jesus is eternal. But you do not agree.

                            The Catholic Catechism says it means that the spiritual soul of the man Christ Jesus was created and then "assumed" (added) to the Word's other nature. But you do not agree.

                            Kampioen says it means that the Word is "the supernatural personal existence" (a part of the soul) of the man Christ Jesus. I don't think you agree.

                            So what do you believe "Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH" means?

                            .
                            Last edited by Presentist; 10-09-18, 11:37 AM.
                            God our father is the holy spirit called the LORD, and Jesus is the LORD in the flesh.

                            The LORD is God Dt 6:4 The LORD is our father Is 64:8 The LORD is holy Is 6:3 God is spirit Jn 4:24 God manifest in the flesh 1 Ti 3:16 Jesus is Lord 1 Co 12:3

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                              I do not think flesh is eternal but Jesus is eternal just as God is eternal but the Son of God had a beginning!

                              God bless you,

                              SeventhDay
                              The Son of God is eternal, since NO ONE can become The Son of God.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Presentist View Post


                                I would agree that everything IMMATERIAL concerning Jesus the Son of God is eternal.

                                But your statement we are discussing is... "Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH."

                                If you believe NOTHING concerning Jesus IN THE FLESH is eternal, then...

                                What specifically do you mean when you say "Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH"?

                                I say it means that everything immaterial about the man Christ Jesus is eternal. But you do not agree.

                                The Catholic Catechism says it means that the spiritual soul of the man Christ Jesus was created and then "assumed" (added) to the Word's other nature. But you do not agree.

                                Kampioen says it means that the Word is "the supernatural personal existence" (a part of the soul) of the man Christ Jesus. I don't think you agree.

                                So what do you believe "Jesus Christ is God IN THE FLESH" means?

                                .
                                Nothing concerning Jesus Christ THE MAN is eternal. The spirit/soul of Christ The MAN was formed in His body at conception, just as with ALL men.
                                There is NO such thing as an eternal HUMAN soul/spirit.
                                Jesus Christ as God in the flesh means God BECAME a MAN.

                                Comment

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