Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

Edited to add more information for posters:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

so-called messianic prophecies

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • so-called messianic prophecies

    I'm so frustrated. I'm getting backed into a corner yet again. I get so irritated when Christians take verses from the Tanakh out of context and call them messianic prophecies. It looks like someone is going to appeal to an ex-Cathedra document for a psalm about the ark for Mary's assumption. As a Catholic, I'm not going to be able to argue against an infallible statement. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place.
    Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
    “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
    "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

  • #2
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    I'm so frustrated. I'm getting backed into a corner yet again. I get so irritated when Christians take verses from the Tanakh out of context and call them messianic prophecies. It looks like someone is going to appeal to an ex-Cathedra document for a psalm about the ark for Mary's assumption. As a Catholic, I'm not going to be able to argue against an infallible statement. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place.
    Christians aren't interested in what the texts have traditionally meant to the people who wrote them. They can't learn from us. They see what they want to see. Maybe that's for the best?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Yiddisher Kop View Post

      Christians aren't interested in what the texts have traditionally meant to the people who wrote them. They can't learn from us. They see what they want to see. Maybe that's for the best?
      How can it ever be for the best when people only see what they want to see? It reminds me when I was teaching parochial school, and someone saw the Virgin Mary in the tile pattern on the wall in the main church. It was a case of Rorschach ink blots. They called the local newspaper and everything. It was so embarrassing to me.
      Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
      “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
      "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

        How can it ever be for the best when people only see what they want to see? It reminds me when I was teaching parochial school, and someone saw the Virgin Mary in the tile pattern on the wall in the main church. It was a case of Rorschach ink blots. They called the local newspaper and everything. It was so embarrassing to me.
        When Christians see something I disagree with, I make the call on whether or not they're harming themselves. If they are, I get involved. If they just think something that I think is stupid, I leave them to their stupid ideas. It's more neighborly that way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Yiddisher Kop View Post

          When Christians see something I disagree with, I make the call on whether or not they're harming themselves. If they are, I get involved. If they just think something that I think is stupid, I leave them to their stupid ideas. It's more neighborly that way.
          I on the other hand, tend to be embarrassed down to my toenails when any or all Christians engage in what I consider to be obvious ignorance or superstition. It only discredits the faith. First of all, I always feel sorry when others look bad -- I feel their humiliation even when they don't feel it for themselves. But also, in this particular case it makes me look bad by association, even if that's irrational.
          Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
          “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
          "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
            I'm so frustrated. I'm getting backed into a corner yet again. I get so irritated when Christians take verses from the Tanakh out of context and call them messianic prophecies. It looks like someone is going to appeal to an ex-Cathedra document for a psalm about the ark for Mary's assumption. As a Catholic, I'm not going to be able to argue against an infallible statement. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place.
            No so-called messianic prophecy stands up to scrutiny in its own context, whether it be in the Torah, Psalms, or Prophets, because the Tanakh does NOT teach a Messiah. Messiah is rabbinic.

            Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
            I on the other hand, tend to be embarrassed down to my toenails when any or all Christians engage in what I consider to be obvious ignorance or superstition. It only discredits the faith. First of all, I always feel sorry when others look bad -- I feel their humiliation even when they don't feel it for themselves. But also, in this particular case it makes me look bad by association, even if that's irrational.
            Orthodox Jews embarrass themselves with this as much as Christians since the messianic concept in simply not in Tanakh.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by davidbrainerd View Post
              not in Tanakh.
              the Messiah is promised as early as Gen 3.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by American Gothic View Post

                the Messiah is promised as early as Gen 3.
                Not according to Open Heart's OP.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by davidbrainerd View Post

                  Not according to Open Heart's OP.
                  It depends on who you ask and what you start with. If you start with the NT and look back, then "He shall bruise your heal" can be read as a prophecy that the messiah will defeat Satan. However, there is nothing intrinsic to that Genesis text that "He" is referring to a Messiah, or even that the snake is Satan. Again, you have to start with the NT to get any of that. For Jews who have only the Tanakh, they simply don't have it.
                  Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
                  “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
                  "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                    It depends on who you ask
                    which is the Correct view?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                      It depends on who you ask and what you start with. If you start with the NT and look back, then "He shall bruise your heal" can be read as a prophecy that the messiah will defeat Satan. However, there is nothing intrinsic to that Genesis text that "He" is referring to a Messiah, or even that the snake is Satan. Again, you have to start with the NT to get any of that. For Jews who have only the Tanakh, they simply don't have it.
                      We agree on something.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by American Gothic View Post

                        which is the Correct view?
                        Both views are correct, depending on what you start with.
                        Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
                        “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
                        "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X