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The Jewish Jesus

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  • The Jewish Jesus

    Have you ever seen this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7g-7Vmvfc
    The purpose of my posts are not to cause bicker or division, but to show truth from the scripture for edifying of the soul. It does not matter what we think, it is what God's Word says that matters.

  • #2
    is that guy considered a real Rabbi?

    Comment


    • #3
      He seems to be a Messianic of the Protestant variety. I doubt he's a Jew, and it is likely that any seminarian training he has had was at a Christian seminary rather than a Yeshiva. But I'm just guessing based upon his topic and the way he delivers his sermon.
      Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
      “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
      "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

      Comment


      • #4
        What sort of training/process do real Rabbis go through to become one?
        Last edited by American Gothic; 02-13-18, 01:24 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
          What sort of training/process do real Rabbis go through to become one?
          I am not an expert to answer this. This is the sort of question that you would contact a synagogue and ask the rabbi. But to the best of my knowledge, A rabbi is someone who has Semikhah (the leaning of hands, aka Jewish ordination). It requires study in a Yeshivah for 3-6 years depending on the Jewish denomination.The study includes Talmud, Jewish law codes, and case law. It ASSUMES a fluency in the Torah before you even begin.
          Last edited by Open Heart; 02-13-18, 09:52 PM.
          Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
          “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
          "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
            is that guy considered a real Rabbi?
            No. He is a Messianic and therefore did not get his "rabbinical" training from a legitimate source. Messianics might consider him a rabbi, but no legitimate Jewish source would. He is a Christian minister, pastor, what ever term you would like to use.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've see him before, and really didn't think he was. Seems like a shtick.
              There's a Jewish Christian teacher I know of who was going thru Rabbinic training when he became a Christian, and he deliberately does Not represent himself as a Rabbi.
              Even though he's is not a part of Judaism anymore, he seems to respect the position and what goes with it.
              He makes the point that Hebrew proficiency would be one of the first things learned, so its silly for any Messianic rabbis who don't really have that to act as if they do.

              Do you think persons who actually were Rabbi's, and then become Christians, should stop using that designation?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
                I've see him before, and really didn't think he was. Seems like a shtick.
                There's a Jewish Christian teacher I know of who was going thru Rabbinic training when he became a Christian, and he deliberately does Not represent himself as a Rabbi.
                Even though he's is not a part of Judaism anymore, he seems to respect the position and what goes with it.
                He makes the point that Hebrew proficiency would be one of the first things learned, so its silly for any Messianic rabbis who don't really have that to act as if they do.

                Do you think persons who actually were Rabbi's, and then become Christians, should stop using that designation?
                If they actually were rabbis-there are so many phony stories about fake rabbis becoming Christians put out by Messianics-I think they should stop calling themselves "rabbi". The same way
                a Christian minister who became a Jew should no longer call themselves minister, priest, pastor, or whatever. There are actually quite a few ex Christian clergy that have converted to Judaism
                and not one of them uses their former title. It is no longer appropriate and it is deceptive.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
                  I've see him before, and really didn't think he was. Seems like a shtick.
                  There's a Jewish Christian teacher I know of who was going thru Rabbinic training when he became a Christian, and he deliberately does Not represent himself as a Rabbi.
                  Even though he's is not a part of Judaism anymore, he seems to respect the position and what goes with it.
                  He makes the point that Hebrew proficiency would be one of the first things learned, so its silly for any Messianic rabbis who don't really have that to act as if they do.

                  Do you think persons who actually were Rabbi's, and then become Christians, should stop using that designation?
                  True Messianic Judaism is a Judaism, not simply another branch of the Church. Look at the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations (UMJC) for example. They draw on Talmudic traditions as well as the Bible. They have a Yeshiva for the training and ordination of their rabbis. They have a rabbinical council that discusses and rules on halakhic and related issues, and does conversions to Judaism. They may believe that Yeshua is the messiah, but they are obviously not Christian churches. Their religious leaders are rightly called rabbis.
                  Last edited by Open Heart; 03-06-18, 12:57 AM.
                  Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
                  “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
                  "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                    rightly called rabbis.
                    within all the current manifestations of Judaism, who definitively decides something like that?
                    what sort of Judaism is UMJC modeling itself on?

                    within Christianity, I think there is room for a broad array of cultural difference and expression, but why would groups and organizations of Jewish believers not want to be considered a part of the Church?
                    Last edited by American Gothic; 03-06-18, 10:23 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by American Gothic View Post

                      within all the current manifestations of Judaism, who definitively decides something like that?
                      what sort of Judaism is UMJC modeling itself on?

                      within Christianity, I think there is room for a broad array of cultural difference and expression, but why would groups and organizations of Jewish believers not want to be considered a part of the Church?
                      I believe I answered your question in my last post.

                      I didn't say not part of Ekklesia. I said not a Christian church. There is a difference between the Church and a church.

                      You need to read much more carefully. I'm very precise and nuanced.
                      Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
                      “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
                      "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                        True Messianic Judaism is a Judaism, not simply another branch of the Church.
                        As per their own definition. No branch of Judaism accepts it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TripleT View Post
                          As per their own definition. No branch of Judaism accepts it.
                          Pfft. Reform Judaism isn't accepted by the Orthodox. Lack of being accepted by another branch doesn't make it not a branch of Judaism.

                          Judaism was probably best summarized in Maimonides 13 principles, which would make MJ more of a Judaism than Reform Judaism. http://web.oru.edu/current_students/...inc/index.html
                          Open Heart, Hebrew Catholic
                          “God never abandoned his covenant with Israel" Pope Francis
                          "It is unthinkable that [the Church] would claim to replace Israel. She is not another Israel." Cardinal Lustiger

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                            Maimonides 13 principles,
                            #7
                            "I believe by complete faith that the prophesy of Moses our teacher, may peace rest upon him, was true and that he was the father of all prophets that preceded him as well as all that came after him."




                            "The baptism of John— where was it from? From heaven or from men?”
                            And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we fear the multitude, for they count John as a prophet.”

                            If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’'s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
                            41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you— - Moses, in whom you trust. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

                            What does belief in Yeshua have to do with today's Judaism then?
                            Last edited by American Gothic; 03-10-18, 11:33 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                              Pfft. Reform Judaism isn't accepted by the Orthodox. Lack of being accepted by another branch doesn't make it not a branch of Judaism.
                              Even Reform Judaism rejects the Messianic faith....that's going some.
                              While Orthodoxy may have differences with Reform, they accept Reform as a part of the Jewish community. Every branch of
                              Judaism is in agreement that the Messianic faith is outside of it. It's a part of the Christian community, not ours.

                              Comment

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