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In J.K. Rowling’s New Novel, the Villain Is an Israel-hating anti-Semite

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  • #76
    The Midrash is recognizing that the same Spirit that created everything is the same Spirit that operates in the Messiah. The MIdrash is connecting Isaiah 11:1,2 to the Messiah. The Spirit that moved upon the waters is God's Holy Spirit as Jesus recognized- Matthew 10:20. God is never disconnected from His own Spirit. Therefore the messiah is unified with God through the Holy Spirit. Jesus never said He was God, He said God was in Him. This is how Jesus is viewed as "God." Let me give you a quick illustration of the Trinity or the tri-unity of God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, because I know there is a considerable amount of confusion about this and it's really not complicated at all. Jesus said God is a Spirit - John 4:24. He is one Spirit, "God is one" - Galatians 3:20.
    Whenever we have more than one spirit in relation to God we are jumping the fence into polytheism. God is one Spirit and as Jesus said, the Holy Spirit is His Spirit. God also has a person, a being, which is referred to as soul in the Old Testament Scriptures. His person directs the operations of His Spirit. We can see this very clearly in Psalm 104:30. "You send forth Your Spirit and they are created" The mind wills the Spirit responds. So we see that God is two, spirit and soul without being more than one. The orthodox doctrine of the Christian church which has been eroded for the most part, is that Jesus had a beginning at some point in infinity. What was begotten from God's substance or spirit is Jesus' person/soul. This is what makes Him God's "Son." He was birthed, produced from a pre-existing substance and not made or created out of nothing, His soul originated directly from God. God joined His Spirit with Him making them one. Jesus is God's image or representative, and God created everything through Him. He also did the miracles through Jesus as Jesus said, giving all the glory to God His Father. It's interesting to see that God created everything with the span (Isaiah 40:12), which is about the length of a man's hand.
    So the Trinity is simply this, one God who is two, spirit and soul/person plus His image. All three are distinct from each other, all three operate simultaneously (in other words you can't have one without the other) and all three are totally one unified by one the one Spirit that is God. I mentioned this before, God is an invisible Holy Spirit and the only way He can communicate and interact with His creation is through His image, Jesus, who was begotten for this purpose and to also make it possible for our souls to escape this dimension when we die. The only way Abraham could have lunch with God is through His image. Please note that Abraham recognized the "Man" he was eating with as God Himself.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Miciah View Post

      There are some documents that are not included in the Bible that have merit like the book of Enoch, (which is quoted by Jude), and some books in the Apocrypha. Sirach is awesome. If the dead Sea scrolls were found before the Bible was written, I am sure some of those writings would have been included. The epistle of Barnabas, Paul's traveling companion was in the canon originally and was removed later, probably because he was using allegory to analyze the unclean foods list, relating the foods to certain types of people. Otherwise it's an excellent epistle and contains the clearest commandment against abortion.
      It depends on what you mean by have merit. They may intellectually interesting. Or they may be of historical import, such as the Maccabees. But they simply are not canon. I found it odd that you treated one as if it were to be trusted. Are you in danger of adding to the Torah??? I don't know at this point. I can only say that your words were very uncomfortable.

      Barnabas didn't write the Epistle of Barnabas. Just because Paul quotes Enoch doesn't mean he thought it was canon--remember he quoted pagan poets too. I'm glad you enjoyed Sirach, it is interesting, although not part of the Tanakh. I believe it was never written in Hebrew--too far from the core.
      Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

      "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

        It depends on what you mean by have merit. They may intellectually interesting. Or they may be of historical import, such as the Maccabees. But they simply are not canon. I found it odd that you treated one as if it were to be trusted. Are you in danger of adding to the Torah??? I don't know at this point. I can only say that your words were very uncomfortable.

        Barnabas didn't write the Epistle of Barnabas. Just because Paul quotes Enoch doesn't mean he thought it was canon--remember he quoted pagan poets too. I'm glad you enjoyed Sirach, it is interesting, although not part of the Tanakh. I believe it was never written in Hebrew--too far from the core.
        How many of the Hebrew writings that compose the oral Torah are not canon? Lots of them. Barnabas did write his epistle. There is another counterfeit that was not written by Barnabas, don't get them confused. The one I'm talking about was included in the canon at one point, and is legit. Again, if the dead Sea scrolls were discovered before the canon was assembled, I am sure that at least some of those writings would have been deemed as scripture, especially the prophecies by Moses. It is said that he wrote seventy books, most likely portions of them were included in the scrolls.

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        • #79
          [QUOTE=Miciah;n6122318]

          How many of the Hebrew writings that compose the oral Torah are not canon? Lots of them./QUOTE]

          The Talmud is an accepted group of writings. Enoch is not part of it.
          Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

          "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

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          • #80
            [QUOTE=Open Heart;n6122743]
            Originally posted by Miciah View Post

            How many of the Hebrew writings that compose the oral Torah are not canon? Lots of them./QUOTE]

            The Talmud is an accepted group of writings. Enoch is not part of it.
            The Talmud is an accepted group of writings that in many cases contradict the Torah. I would not consider the Talmud as legit as it was developed by what Moses said was going to be the most wicked of the Rabbis. Occult works were taken from the Babylonian captivity and accepted by this group, even though the Torah warns against it. Enoch exposes a lot of demonic influence and that's probably why its not in your canon. The Noahide laws were introduced by one of your guys, it's not in the Torah which says there is one law for Jews and the strangers. I'm a Karaite Gentile.

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            • #81
              [QUOTE=Miciah;n6125563]
              Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

              The Talmud is an accepted group of writings that in many cases contradict the Torah. I would not consider the Talmud as legit as it was developed by what Moses said was going to be the most wicked of the Rabbis. Occult works were taken from the Babylonian captivity and accepted by this group, even though the Torah warns against it. Enoch exposes a lot of demonic influence and that's probably why its not in your canon. The Noahide laws were introduced by one of your guys, it's not in the Torah which says there is one law for Jews and the strangers. I'm a Karaite Gentile.
              The Talmud contradicts the Torah is many places? I think not. The Talmud is there to elucidate the Torah, to protect the Torah. The Pirke Avot (Sayings of the Fathers) is the earliest part of the Talmud. It's opening line is "The first thing is to put a fence around the Torah." This is the equivalent to the Christian "Avoid the near occasion of sin." The idea is that if X is a sin, the Talmud is going to say don't even come close to X lest you break the law of the written Torah.

              There are two reasons that I don't give much recognition to the Karaite movement. To begin with, it has died out. There are miscellaneous Karaites, sure, but as a movement? It is no longer with us. If you are a "Karaite Gentile" you are alone in the world. Second, it makes no sense for a Jew to break with Jewish tradition. Israel sinks or swims together as a people. It's bad enough that we have different denominations of halakha. To differ on something as major as whether Talmud were a sacred writing would be a chasm from which we couldn't recover. Third, I consider the Karaite mindset to be hypocritical, because they simply replace one set of traditions with another, and so aren't REALLY Torah only.

              Enoch is apocalyctic, and quote frankly, Jews have never really been into that type of literature. You'll say, "Well what about Daniel? Daniel and Esther were the two last books to be added to the Tanakh, precisely because they were problematic. And Daniel is not a prophet. The only real value of Enoch is to document the end times fervor of that day and their emphasis on supernatural beings.
              Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

              "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

              Comment


              • #82
                [QUOTE=Open Heart;n6125868]
                Originally posted by Miciah View Post

                The Talmud contradicts the Torah is many places? I think not. The Talmud is there to elucidate the Torah, to protect the Torah. The Pirke Avot (Sayings of the Fathers) is the earliest part of the Talmud. It's opening line is "The first thing is to put a fence around the Torah." This is the equivalent to the Christian "Avoid the near occasion of sin." The idea is that if X is a sin, the Talmud is going to say don't even come close to X lest you break the law of the written Torah.

                There are two reasons that I don't give much recognition to the Karaite movement. To begin with, it has died out. There are miscellaneous Karaites, sure, but as a movement? It is no longer with us. If you are a "Karaite Gentile" you are alone in the world. Second, it makes no sense for a Jew to break with Jewish tradition. Israel sinks or swims together as a people. It's bad enough that we have different denominations of halakha. To differ on something as major as whether Talmud were a sacred writing would be a chasm from which we couldn't recover. Third, I consider the Karaite mindset to be hypocritical, because they simply replace one set of traditions with another, and so aren't REALLY Torah only.

                Enoch is apocalyctic, and quote frankly, Jews have never really been into that type of literature. You'll say, "Well what about Daniel? Daniel and Esther were the two last books to be added to the Tanakh, precisely because they were problematic. And Daniel is not a prophet. The only real value of Enoch is to document the end times fervor of that day and their emphasis on supernatural beings.
                The Talmud doesn't contradict the Torah? Have you read all of those volumes? The hate literature directed at Gentiles is not compatible with what God says in the Torah about how Jews are supposed to treat "strangers." One reason why the Jews in Israel are so brutal to the Palestinians is that they are encouraged by the Talmud, which is another case of allowing man's words to override scripture. Every cult in Christendom has another book that they use to help them interpret the scriptures when all they need is God's words and His Spirit. In that I don't see any difference between those cults and the use of the Talmud. It's not necessary and causes a lot of harm.

                Yes, Enoch is valuable because it does expose a lot regarding spiritual warfare, that's why it's not in the canon, too much truth.

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                • #83
                  [QUOTE=Miciah;n6127668]
                  Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                  The hate literature directed at Gentiles is not compatible with what God says in the Torah about how Jews are supposed to treat "strangers."
                  I think we've already gone over the little problem of what Jesus said to the Canaanite woman. If you are going to be fair, then you would have to say that Jesus' statement too was not compatible with what the Torah says about treating strangers.

                  Yes, Enoch is valuable because it does expose a lot regarding spiritual warfare, that's why it's not in the canon, too much truth.
                  Please don't twist my words. I said nothing of the sort. I simply said that Enoch tells us that Jews of that time were interested in such things. I never said it was valuable in any objective sense.

                  Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

                  "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

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                  • #84
                    Nt
                    Last edited by Rachel Rachel; 10-10-19, 04:51 AM.


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                    • #85
                      [QUOTE=Open Heart;n6128283]
                      Originally posted by Miciah View Post
                      I think we've already gone over the little problem of what Jesus said to the Canaanite woman. If you are going to be fair, then you would have to say that Jesus' statement too was not compatible with what the Torah says about treating strangers.

                      Please don't twist my words. I said nothing of the sort. I simply said that Enoch tells us that Jews of that time were interested in such things. I never said it was valuable in any objective sense.
                      Jesus did not teach that it's okay to lie to Gentiles, give instructions on how to kill and use them as the Talmud does which is disgusting. Jesus was testing the woman and reflecting the culture at that time which He said He had come to change. There would be no distinction between Jew and Gentile. You are deliberately trying to avoid the truth of what the Talmud is really all about. It encourages racism and that is reflected in the culture in Israel today. I believe that's one of the reasons why God is going to allow Israel to go into another captivity before Jesus returns as prophesied in Zechariah 14 and other places. The Jews need to repent before this happens.

                      I said Enoch was valuable because it gives us insights into spiritual warfare, something that the Jews know very little about, but they need to. They continuously allow themselves to be deceived by the occult teachings of the Kabbala.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Miciah View Post

                        Jesus did not teach that it's okay to lie to Gentiles, give instructions on how to kill and use them as the Talmud does which is disgusting. Jesus was testing the woman and reflecting the culture at that time which He said He had come to change. There would be no distinction between Jew and Gentile. You are deliberately trying to avoid the truth of what the Talmud is really all about. It encourages racism and that is reflected in the culture in Israel today. I believe that's one of the reasons why God is going to allow Israel to go into another captivity before Jesus returns as prophesied in Zechariah 14 and other places. The Jews need to repent before this happens.

                        I said Enoch was valuable because it gives us insights into spiritual warfare, something that the Jews know very little about, but they need to. They continuously allow themselves to be deceived by the occult teachings of the Kabbala.
                        Spiritual warfare assumes the existence of demons. Not all Judaisms make this assumption. It is enough, I think, to battle the evil within ourselves.

                        If Gentiles are dogs, what follows from that??

                        I think we are beating a dead horse on this one. You refuse to see the point. It is too important to you to preserve the sinlessness of your savior.
                        Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

                        "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                          Spiritual warfare assumes the existence of demons. Not all Judaisms make this assumption. It is enough, I think, to battle the evil within ourselves.

                          If Gentiles are dogs, what follows from that??

                          I think we are beating a dead horse on this one. You refuse to see the point. It is too important to you to preserve the sinlessness of your savior.
                          I think, rather you are refusing to acknowledge the sins in your own camp. And it's' sad because you have a voice to correct those errors. If you think it's okay for those teachings to remain, then you are a party to the sin.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Miciah View Post
                            I think, rather you are refusing to acknowledge the sins in your own camp. And it's' sad because you have a voice to correct those errors. If you think it's okay for those teachings to remain, then you are a party to the sin.
                            As Messiah took all sin upon Himself and paid penalty for all as well, Jews are already forgiven - they just don't know it and acknowledge it.
                            The unforgivable sin they are guilty of concerns belief and a refusing of the grace and kindness of God.


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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Miciah View Post

                              I think, rather you are refusing to acknowledge the sins in your own camp. And it's' sad because you have a voice to correct those errors. If you think it's okay for those teachings to remain, then you are a party to the sin.
                              I have no problems acknowledging the "sins in my own camp." What I can't stand is hypocrisy coming from the Christian camp. Take the log out of your own eye. Once you acknowledge the problem in the gospels, clearing up the Christian slate, THEN we'll talk about the problem that you want to bring up.

                              Or, you can choose to drop it.
                              Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

                              "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by American Gothic View Post

                                As Messiah took all sin upon Himself and paid penalty for all as well, Jews are already forgiven - they just don't know it and acknowledge it.
                                The unforgivable sin they are guilty of concerns belief and a refusing of the grace and kindness of God.

                                We believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and accept his forgiveness and mercy. We also obey him. Do you?
                                Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

                                "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

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