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You are a priest forever - without a covenant - according to the order of Melchisedek

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  • You are a priest forever - without a covenant - according to the order of Melchisedek

    Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine;
    he was the priest of God Most High.
    And he blessed him ...
    (Gen 14:18-19).

    A fake blessing by king who wasn't a man of God for Abram
    was the soon to be declared 'father of righteousness' (Gen 15:6, Rom 4:12).

    Abram gave tithes to Melchy, who wasn't a priest either
    for there had been no covenant, which required a priest.


    It gets worse for David states;


    The LORD has sworn
    And will not relent,
    “You are a priest forever
    - without a covenant -
    according to the order of Melchizedek.” (Ps 110:4).



    Can my new friend address that self-refuting word of God?


    shlomoh


    .
    Last edited by Conqueror; 01-24-19, 01:33 AM.

  • #2
    There are three covenants that pre-date the Mosaic.
    If Melchy (sic) was Shem, then he would have been living under the Noahic covenant, and it's commands.
    There were individuals who held the "Melchizedek" position from Adam thru Aaron, before the giving of the Law to Israel at Sinai...
    all had a priest/king function, all were prophets, all wrote and left testaments, and all were men of God.

    Hosea 6:7 states that Adam "broke a covenant".
    Last edited by American Gothic; 01-25-19, 08:26 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
      Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine;
      he was the priest of God Most High.
      And he blessed him ...
      (Gen 14:18-19).

      A fake blessing by king who wasn't a man of God for Abram
      was the soon to be declared 'father of righteousness' (Gen 15:6, Rom 4:12).

      Abram gave tithes to Melchy, who wasn't a priest either
      for there had been no covenant, which required a priest.


      It gets worse for David states;


      The LORD has sworn
      And will not relent,
      “You are a priest forever
      - without a covenant -
      according to the order of Melchizedek.” [COLOR=#0000CD](Ps 110:4).


      .
      Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
      There were individuals who held the "Melchizedek" position from Adam thru Aaron
      Chapter and verse please?




      Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
      Hosea 6:7 states that Adam "broke a covenant".
      But like Adam they transgressed the covenant;
      There they dealt treacherously with Me
      (Ho 6:7).

      What that entailed is a mystery to most
      for they too transgressed that everlasting Adamic covenant.

      Back to (sic) Melchy the king of righteousness and his non-existent covenant.


      .










      Comment


      • #4
        No chapter and verse to give but there is stuff available on the early patriarchs. (Adam thru Aaron)
        https://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Testa.../dp/1975887743

        There are two covenants with/thru Adam...the one he broke and then one that replaced it the gist of which is found in Gen. 3:14-19.
        The "everlasting covenant" is the Noahic. (reference in Isaiah 24:5-6) by which God will judge Humanity as a whole.
        Last edited by American Gothic; 01-25-19, 08:50 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

          Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine;
          he was the priest of God Most High.
          And he blessed him ...
          (Gen 14:18-19).

          A fake blessing by king who wasn't a man of God for Abram
          was the soon to be declared 'father of righteousness' (Gen 15:6, Rom 4:12).

          Abram gave tithes to Melchy, who wasn't a priest either
          for there had been no covenant, which required a priest.


          It gets worse for David states;


          The LORD has sworn
          And will not relent,
          “You are a priest forever
          - without a covenant -
          according to the order of Melchizedek.” (Ps 110:4).

          Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
          No chapter and verse to give but there is stuff available on the early patriarchs. (Adam thru Aaron)
          https://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Testa.../dp/1975887743

          There are two covenants with/thru Adam...the one he broke and then one that replaced it the gist of which is found in Gen. 3:14-19.
          Please use the quote button.

          The everlasting Adamic covenant is
          not to get knowledge of good and evil
          from another source or you will die (Gen 2:17).

          That gist of a forthcoming covenant
          given to Abraham is found in the prophecy in Genesis 3.

          Abraham the father of righteousness cannot have been subject
          to king Melchy the covenantless high priest and
          the alleged king-grandfather of righteousness.




          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
            The everlasting Adamic covenant is...
            That one (Gen. 2:17) is usually called the Edenic - it was conditional, was broken,, and then was followed by a new one. (Adamic, Gen 3)
            The first three (Edenic, Adamic, Noahic) are made with all of humanity.
            The Abrahamic is made with Israel, but Gentiles can participate thru faith...
            Last edited by American Gothic; 01-25-19, 09:10 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
              That one (Gen. 2:17) is usually called the Edenic - it was conditional, was broken,, and then was followed by a new one. (Adamic, Gen 3)
              But like Adam they transgressed the covenant;
              There they dealt treacherously with Me
              (Ho 6:7).

              That Adamic covenant was still in place
              for the Israelites and even for us,
              but that it is still valid is completely lost on today's Christendom.

              Please teach us which covenant required a priest
              of which Melchy was the high-priest?


              .


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                That Adamic covenant was still in place
                I agree the Adamic is still in effect....so is the Noahic.
                We seem to be disagreeing on which is what and what is called, etc. which to me is not a big deal.
                I'm not arguing for a specific covenant/priest "connection" as you are, just that there seems to be a chain of individuals that filled the priest/kingish role.

                Abraham was the melchy after Shem.

                (I am soon to be booted from the library, so may disappear shortly for a while....)
                Last edited by American Gothic; 01-25-19, 09:17 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by American Gothic View Post

                  I agree the Adamic is still in effect....so is the Noahic.
                  We seem to be disagreeing on which is what and what is called, etc. which to me is not a big deal.

                  Abraham was the melchy after Shem.

                  (I am soon to be booted from the library, so may disappear for a while...)
                  Abraham was the father of righteousness (Rom 4:12)
                  therefore his predecessor was a fake.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                    Abraham was the father of righteousness (Rom 4:12)
                    therefore his predecessor was a fake.
                    Abel was righteous, according to Matthew 23, Heb. 11:4.
                    his bringing the blood sacrifice was the evidence of his Faith.

                    no one is righteous unless declared to be so, by God.
                    Last edited by American Gothic; 01-25-19, 09:28 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by American Gothic View Post

                      Abel was righteous, according to Matthew 23, Heb. 11:4.
                      his bringing the blood sacrifice was the evidence of his Faith.

                      no one is righteous unless declared to be so, by God.
                      Now you put yourself into the corner
                      for since Abel was righteous,
                      Abraham cannot have been the father of righteousness.

                      However, Abel was righteous according to his works
                      and Abraham was declared righteous for his faith.


                      the LORD respected Abel and his offering (Ge 4:4).






                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                        Abel was righteous according to his works
                        No one is ever righteous from works - it's always been by Grace thru faith!
                        Works are done because of the faith and are the evidence of it.
                        Abel was righteous only because God declared him to be so, and thus in his standing before God, he was so.

                        God knows the heart and mind (Paul), the world can only see our faith thru our works (James).
                        Last edited by American Gothic; 01-25-19, 09:52 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by American Gothic View Post

                          No one is ever righteous from works - it's always been by Grace thru faith!
                          Works are done because of the faith and are the evidence of it.

                          God knows the heart and mind (Paul), the world can only see our faith thru our works (James).
                          James is a study in hypocrisy.


                          Abel died.


                          And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
                          Some to everlasting life,
                          Some to shame and everlasting contempt
                          (Da 12:2).

                          God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me,
                          for the earth is filled with violence through them;
                          and behold, I will destroy them with the earth
                          (Ge 6:13).

                          did not spare the ancient world,
                          but saved Noah, one of eight people
                          (2 Pe 2:5).

                          However Abraham's righteousness will last forever.

                          .






                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by American Gothic View Post
                            There are three covenants that pre-date the Mosaic.
                            If Melchy (sic) was Shem, then he would have been living under the Noahic covenant, and it's commands.
                            There were individuals who held the "Melchizedek" position from Adam thru Aaron, before the giving of the Law to Israel at Sinai...
                            all had a priest/king function, all were prophets, all wrote and left testaments, and all were men of God.

                            Hosea 6:7 states that Adam "broke a covenant".
                            There is no reason to think that there was a "line" of Melchizedek priests, even if Shem were Melchizedek. The Christian scriptures seem to use the term to describe any priest of God not of the Aaronic line. It need not have its own line. And David was also considered a priest after the order of Melchizedek in the figurative sense, meaning it can refer to anyone who isn't a priest but who is very close to God.

                            The question is not whether we break the covenant, but whether God does. God does not break covenants.

                            Much of the covenant with the Jews is unconditional; all the obligation is on God's part, such as making Abraham the Father of many nations, blessing those who will bless him, giving the Land of Canaan to him and his descendants through Isaac. Other parts of the covenant with the Jews are conditional, such as prosperity and actually living in the promised land. (It can get confusing -- the land belongs to us even when we are not living on it.)
                            Last edited by Open Heart; 01-25-19, 10:07 PM.
                            Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

                            "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                              David was also considered a priest after the order of Melchizedek in the figurative sense
                              Chapter and verse please?


                              .

                              Comment

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