Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

the biblical cosmology vs the one invented in the 1400's

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • the biblical cosmology vs the one invented in the 1400's

    There is great amount of evidence that tells us Copernicus and the men he was inspired by are given credit for telling the world about its true design in that the earth is a spinning ball, spinning faster than the speed of sound at a blinding 1000 miles per hour as it travels around the sun at a mind blowing 67,000 miles per hour

    and our only defense against the terrific forces of the vacuum of space and any debris that lie in it is simply an ever thinning layer of air called atmosphere, that some how is magically tethered to the earth, so that when you fly in a plane none of this amazing spinning is even noticeable

    in fact even gyroscopes do not register the spin of the earth even though gyroscopes are proven to not be effected by gravity
    Last edited by back2thebible; 06-08-16, 08:49 AM.

  • #2
    I'm not quite sure the point of your post. Yes, as you indicate, the earth is spinning on its axis and traveling around the sun through the vacuum of space.

    What of it?

    Comment


    • #3
      At least he is not a hypocrite like other fundies.

      Originally posted by Homer123 View Post
      I'm not quite sure the point of your post. Yes, as you indicate, the earth is spinning on its axis and traveling around the sun through the vacuum of space.

      What of it?
      Welcome to the boards, Homer.

      He is a flat-earther.

      Of course, to give him his due, he is not hypocritical like most posters here. At least he defends the Biblical flat-earth cosmology and doesn't pretend that Biblical cosmology does not exist as the others do.

      Honest fundies have to choose between being flat-earthers, or believing Biblical cosmology. They cannot have it both ways.
      Last edited by Truth-quest; 06-08-16, 04:20 PM.
      Fellow posters, pls don’t complain about my "divisive" views! “…The Apologetics Forum is for the purpose of answering and debating those with different beliefs or disagreeing with Christian beliefs....We do not remove heretics…”(source CARM, above)

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the welcome, TQ. Perhaps I don't understand Biblical cosmology. Does it teach a flat earth?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Homer123 View Post
          I'm not quite sure the point of your post. Yes, as you indicate, the earth is spinning on its axis and traveling around the sun through the vacuum of space.

          What of it?
          That is what they have always taught us. But you can do some of your own experiments that show what they have taught us does not fit actual observation. The earth is flat after all. They lied to us there like they lied about evolution.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by back2thebible View Post
            There is great amount of evidence that tells us Copernicus and the men he was inspired by are given credit for telling the world about its true design in that the earth is a spinning ball, spinning faster than the speed of sound at a blinding 1000 miles per hour as it travels around the sun at a mind blowing 67,000 miles per hour

            and our only defense against the terrific forces of the vacuum of space and any debris that lie in it is simply an ever thinning layer of air called atmosphere, that some how is magically tethered to the earth, so that when you fly in a plane none of this amazing spinning is even noticeable

            in fact even gyroscopes do not register the spin of the earth even though gyroscopes are proven to not be effected by gravity
            Now that's funny.
            The only true God is our Lord Jesus Christ's God. There is no God but his God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AVoice View Post
              That is what they have always taught us. But you can do some of your own experiments that show what they have taught us does not fit actual observation. The earth is flat after all. They lied to us there like they lied about evolution.
              "They" have been responsible for all kinds of things haven't "they."

              You know what "they" say.
              The only true God is our Lord Jesus Christ's God. There is no God but his God.

              Comment


              • #8
                The hypocrites deny that biblical cosmology exists.

                Originally posted by Homer123 View Post
                Thanks for the welcome, TQ. Perhaps I don't understand Biblical cosmology. Does it teach a flat earth?
                Hi Homer. Does the Bible say that the Earth is flat and the Universe Geocentric? Yes it does! That is normal. It is ancient cosmology and it is what the ancients (and Biblical authors) believed. I therefore say that this Biblical depiction is wrong. The OP believes (or feels forced to believe) that the Biblical fixed flat geocentric cosmology is right. The vast number here (the hypocrites) will say that the Bible does not depict fixed flat geocentric cosmology.

                Below are a large number of verses supporting a fixed flat geocentric cosmology. I challenge anyone to give me a single verse supporting a rotating globe in a heliocentric system.

                __________________

                Verses showing that Biblical authors believed in a fixed flat earth in a geocentric system:


                "take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)

                * = "flat"

                "The earth takes shape like clay under a seal." (Job 38:14)

                * = flat

                Psalms 104:5
                Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.

                * = fixed with "above and below"

                Job 9:6
                who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.

                * = fixed

                Psalms 136:6
                to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever;

                * = waters UNDER the Earth

                1 Samuel 2:8
                He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

                * = fixed with "above and below"

                "And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament" (Genesis 1:7)

                * = fixed and firmament with waters above

                Job 37:18
                Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?

                * = solid firmament

                " anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;" (Exodus 20:4)

                * = flat with "above" and "under"

                " highest heavens, and the waters that are above the heavens!" (Psalm 148:3-4)

                * = waters above the solid firmament

                "The devil took him [Jesus] up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them." (Matthew 4:8)

                * = flat earth

                "the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,." (Rev. 6:12)

                * = notion "DOWN" from stars to earth

                "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth" (Rev. 7:1)

                * = flat

                "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." (Joshua 10:12) = geocentric (but could be figurative)

                "the foundations of the world were laid bare" (2 Samuel 22:16)

                * = flat and fixed

                "Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken" (Psalms 104:5)

                * = flat and fixed

                "For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world." (1 Samuel 2:8)

                * = flat and fixed

                "For he looks to the ends of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens" (Job 28:24)

                * = flat

                "The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth." (Daniel 4:11)

                * = flat

                Mark 13:25
                and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

                * = notion of "DOWN" to the Earth

                Matthew 24:29
                Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; =

                * = notion of "DOWN" to the Earth

                "Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth" (Job 37:3)

                * = flat

                " gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

                * = flat

                " come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth" (Revelation 20:8)

                * = flat

                "Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven." (Job 22:14)

                * = solid firmament "above"

                Isaiah 24:18
                He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

                * = solid firmament "above" and fixed foundations "below"

                Exodus 20:4
                You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

                * = heaven "above" and earth "below" and waters under the earth.
                Fellow posters, pls don’t complain about my "divisive" views! “…The Apologetics Forum is for the purpose of answering and debating those with different beliefs or disagreeing with Christian beliefs....We do not remove heretics…”(source CARM, above)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Herodotus
                  sigpicAn optimist is a middle-age man who thinks the dry cleaner is shrinking the waist band of his trousers. -- (from Bits Of Wit And Wisdom: The Signs At Wintzell's Oyster House by J. Oliver Wintzell; Mobile, Alabama; pg 168)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AVoice View Post
                    The earth is flat after all.
                    Baloney. The claim is absurd.
                    sigpicAn optimist is a middle-age man who thinks the dry cleaner is shrinking the waist band of his trousers. -- (from Bits Of Wit And Wisdom: The Signs At Wintzell's Oyster House by J. Oliver Wintzell; Mobile, Alabama; pg 168)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Truth-quest View Post
                      Hi Homer. Does the Bible say that the Earth is flat and the Universe Geocentric? Yes it does! That is normal. It is ancient cosmology and it is what the ancients (and Biblical authors) believed. I therefore say that this Biblical depiction is wrong. The OP believes (or feels forced to believe) that the Biblical fixed flat geocentric cosmology is right. The vast number here (the hypocrites) will say that the Bible does not depict fixed flat geocentric cosmology.

                      Below are a large number of verses supporting a fixed flat geocentric cosmology. I challenge anyone to give me a single verse supporting a rotating globe in a heliocentric system.

                      __________________

                      Verses showing that Biblical authors believed in a fixed flat earth in a geocentric system:


                      "take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)

                      * = "flat"

                      "The earth takes shape like clay under a seal." (Job 38:14)

                      * = flat

                      Psalms 104:5
                      Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.

                      * = fixed with "above and below"

                      Job 9:6
                      who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.

                      * = fixed

                      Psalms 136:6
                      to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever;

                      * = waters UNDER the Earth

                      1 Samuel 2:8
                      He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

                      * = fixed with "above and below"

                      "And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament" (Genesis 1:7)

                      * = fixed and firmament with waters above

                      Job 37:18
                      Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?

                      * = solid firmament

                      "… anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;" (Exodus 20:4)

                      * = flat with "above" and "under"

                      "… highest heavens, and the waters that are above the heavens!" (Psalm 148:3-4)

                      * = waters above the solid firmament

                      "The devil took him [Jesus] up into an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them." (Matthew 4:8)

                      * = flat earth

                      "the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,…." (Rev. 6:12)

                      * = notion "DOWN" from stars to earth

                      "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth" (Rev. 7:1)

                      * = flat

                      "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." (Joshua 10:12) = geocentric (but could be figurative)

                      "the foundations of the world were laid bare" (2 Samuel 22:16)

                      * = flat and fixed

                      "Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken" (Psalms 104:5)

                      * = flat and fixed

                      "For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world." (1 Samuel 2:8)

                      * = flat and fixed

                      "For he looks to the ends of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens" (Job 28:24)

                      * = flat

                      "The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth." (Daniel 4:11)

                      * = flat

                      Mark 13:25
                      and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

                      * = notion of "DOWN" to the Earth

                      Matthew 24:29
                      Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; =

                      * = notion of "DOWN" to the Earth

                      "Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth" (Job 37:3)

                      * = flat

                      "… gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

                      * = flat

                      " come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth" (Revelation 20:8)

                      * = flat

                      "Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven." (Job 22:14)

                      * = solid firmament "above"

                      Isaiah 24:18
                      He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

                      * = solid firmament "above" and fixed foundations "below"

                      Exodus 20:4
                      You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

                      * = heaven "above" and earth "below" and waters under the earth.
                      Good verses! I am not quite 100% with the flat earth yet even though they bring up some interesting points that I have not seen refuted.

                      What is interesting is that most of the verses you quoted I have (over the years) glossed over them as just being metaphors it is interesting to look at them literally it even changes meanings of preconceived prophecies and to look at God's word from all directions is always a good thing.
                      Last edited by Covenantman; 06-09-16, 03:05 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Covenantman View Post

                        What is interesting is that most of the verses you quoted I have (over the years) glossed over them as just being metaphors...
                        The thing is, a lot of them are indeed metaphors, but a metaphor is sensible and is only used if the writer considers it sensible. Would a sensible author say "as white as coal" or "as black as snow"?

                        In the case of, for example Job 38:14 ("The earth takes shape like clay under a seal."), this is a metaphor but the idea of "squashing clay under a seal" is obviously sensible for the author if he believes that that the earth is a sort of flat pancake.

                        If he had believed that the earth was a rotating globe, he would surely have said something like "The earth takes shape like clay on a potter's wheel."
                        Fellow posters, pls don’t complain about my "divisive" views! “…The Apologetics Forum is for the purpose of answering and debating those with different beliefs or disagreeing with Christian beliefs....We do not remove heretics…”(source CARM, above)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JacktheBear View Post
                          "They" have been responsible for all kinds of things haven't "they."

                          You know what "they" say.
                          “ They” are “the powers that be” (ptb) a term that Obama revealed in an open mic about “the powers that be” rigging the primary elections against Ron Paul because they wanted fellow globalist Romney to win the primary thus ensuring Obama's win while his team player Romney would take a dive, this is how they control the elections.

                          “They” are infuriated right now because I do not believe they have that with Donald Trump so beware of a major attack on the Republican convention because none of the established (globalist) republicans are going to be there; unheard of that all the party leaders are not attending its own convention! The only one I heard that was going was old Bob Dole who hasn’t been politically active in many years and may no longer possess the mental faculty to really understand what is going on.

                          Is this lack of attendance in protest or are they expecting something to happen? daddy bush was filmed doing the throat cut sign while watching Donald Trump on TV, one who many believe had a hand in the assassination of JFK Just like all the ATF who did not show up in their twin tower office the day of 911 and the US Attorney General Ashcroft revealed he was told DO NOT fly that day. I think they have something evil planned and everyone should pray for everyone’s safety there it will make a huge difference;

                          Proverbs 16:9 A man’s heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

                          We are to cry out to God about the evil being done in our land and he has no mercy on those who do not:

                          Ezekiel 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
                          Ezekiel 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

                          We are to warn others :

                          Ezekiel 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
                          Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

                          Ezekiel goes on about warning the righteous also.

                          We are to warn all even at the risk of being labeled a “conspiracy theorist”
                          Last edited by Covenantman; 06-09-16, 04:18 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Truth-quest View Post
                            The thing is, a lot of them are indeed metaphors, but a metaphor is sensible and is only used if the writer considers it sensible. Would a sensible author say "as white as coal" or "as black as snow"?

                            In the case of, for example Job 38:14 ("The earth takes shape like clay under a seal."), this is a metaphor but the idea of "squashing clay under a seal" is obviously sensible for the author if he believes that that the earth is a sort of flat pancake.

                            If he had believed that the earth was a rotating globe, he would surely have said something like "The earth takes shape like clay on a potter's wheel."
                            good points, and with the clay of a seal the sides rise up when the seal pushes down on the soft clay, that would perfectly picture the reported miles high ice walls surrounding the whole earth that the Geo-centric people claim.
                            Last edited by Covenantman; 06-09-16, 04:33 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Covenantman View Post
                              good points, and with the clay of a seal the sides rise up when the seal pushes down on the soft clay, that would perfectly picture the reported miles high ice walls surrounding the whole earth that the Geo-centric people claim.
                              Flat earth AND geocentric.
                              The earth is central to creation in actual position and form, not just ideologically, as seen in Gen 1.
                              The theory of evolution is the little sister to the round earth theory. They work hand in hand to deceive.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X