Original sin - invented or "discovered" by St. Augustine

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Early Christians prior to St. Augustine did not believe in original sin. Original sin is an idea that St. Augustine came up with. St. Augustine was the Bishop of Hippo in the 400s A.D. So, nearly 400 years after Jesus the idea of original sin came to be in the Western church. It gradually became popular in the Western church, but not the East. If you believe that original sin is passed down generation to generation via child birth, then you need to explain the Virgin Mary and Jesus. If Jesus did not have original sin, then did Mary? If Mary did not have original sin, then did she ever die? So, Roman Catholics believe Mary did not have original sin and of course, Jesus did not either. Neither died of old age, rather Jesus came back to life after His execution and Mary was assumed into heaven.

The Eastern church to this day does not believe in original sin. The Eastern church believes mortality is passed down from Adam and Even, but their notion is different from original sin. Since they do not believe in original sin, it is not necessary for them to have a notion of the immaculate conception. Thus, they believe that Mary did die, but Jesus immediately resurrected her and they both were assumed into heaven.

It seems that original sin is a critical doctrine to many protestant traditions like the Calvinists. Since the protestants are an offshoot of the Western Roman Catholic Church, this makes sense. However, what I am highlighting is that original sin is not in the Bible and early Christians did not believe in it. It was an idea that St. Augustine came up with hundreds of years later in philosophy and theology.

I am not saying that original sin is wrong or taking any position on it. But I find it interesting that the Christians who want everything to come from the Bible end up basing their entire theology around a non-biblical idea that was thought up by a former Manichean and philosopher turned Roman Catholic bishop.

I wonder, are Roman Catholics REQUIRED to believe in original sin or can you have an Eastern view of mortality? Are Calvinists ALLOWED to not believe in original sin since it is not in the Bible?
 
Welcome to carm, do realize that this forum is for discussing roman catholicism exclusively. If you would like to discuss eastern orthodox, they have their own forum. And there is a forum for discussing calvinism. If you are not rc, you can not debate other non-rc's in this forum. There are other forums for debating other topics.
 
A new day said:
Welcome to carm, do realize that this forum is for discussing roman catholicism exclusively. If you would like to discuss eastern orthodox, they have their own forum. And there is a forum for discussing calvinism. If you are not rc, you can not debate other non-rc's in this forum. There are other forums for debating other topics.
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I was just mentioning Eastern churches to point out that only churches from the West have an idea of original sin and even in the West it did not really become popular till well past 400 A.D. Original sin is a Roman Catholic idea, that is not in the bible, which various protestant denominations base their entire theology around. So, both the RCC and protestants have something in common, they both love St. Augustine with his original sin and predestination. However, the RCC does not base its entire religion around Augustine, when the Calvinists do.
 
As I said, this is not the forum to discuss calvinism, or orthodox views. To reject that adam’s sin was definitely the origin of the man falling short of God's glory, and sin was inherited by all of us through him is to reject the gospel message.

Romans 5:12-19
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
 
Of course the sin of Adam and Eve is in the bible, I am talking about specifically the doctrine of original sin which is the idea that everyone is automatically born with a tainted nature through sexual reproduction and birth.
 
I just gave you Scripture which said sin came through one man, adam. We inherited our sin nature from adam. God's judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation for all humans.

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.
 
A new day said:
I just gave you Scripture which said sin came through one man, adam. We inherited our sin nature from adam. God's judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation for all humans.

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.
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We don't have a sin nature. We have a human nature.
 
pilgrim said:
No, its a real question. What sin do babies do?
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The Bible teaches:

“Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5).

“Even from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies” (Psalm 58:3).

It seems your argument is with God's written word.
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
The Bible teaches:

“Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5).

“Even from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies” (Psalm 58:3).

It seems your argument is with God's written word.
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No, it is with the poster who claimed the babies need no encouragement to sin. So I ask: what sin do babies do?
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
Did you read the verses I quoted? That should clear up any misunderstanding you are having with the other posters comment.
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If that is your position that babies are sinful at birth then please tell us what babies at birth are guilty of. Breathing? Crying?
 
pilgrim said:
If that is your position that babies are sinful at birth then please tell us what babies at birth are guilty of. Breathing? Crying?
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Perhaps you misunderatand what our sin nature is and how we are born with that sin nature.

The Bible verses I quoted cannot be ignored unless you can provide Biblical proof we are not born with a sin nature, as God has declared in His written word. If so please quote those for my benefit.
 
A new day said:
I just gave you Scripture which said sin came through one man, adam. We inherited our sin nature from adam. God's judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation for all humans.

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.
Click to expand...
Why then does Judaism reject the doctrine of Original Sin defined by the Christian Church?

jewsforjudaism.org

Question: Do Jews believe in the doctrine of original sin?

Do Jews believe in the doctrine of original sin? Find out in this interesting post by Gerald Sigal where he talks about the original sin.
jewsforjudaism.org jewsforjudaism.org
 
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