Josheb
Well-known member
Yeah, you missed the intent of the post, didn't you? Go back and re-read it.
Does God’s word have the power to save those who are lost ?
- Thread starter Leatherneck0311
- Start date
You ignore my point and scriptures revelation
yep and remission of sin logically precedes regeneration
Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
No argument there. EXACTLY what I've said all along, Conviction of SIN is a GIFT (and the beginning of FAITH which is also gifted). OUR PART is to Surrender, Repent, and cry out to God for salvation.
Josheb
Well-known member
Josheb
Well-known member
Don't move the goal posts. You posted what you posted and what you posted was incorrect. Pretending "what I've said all along" is correct while ignoring the fact you made arguments treating regeneration, conviction, repentance, etc. as synonymous with salvation is wrong. What you should be posting is an acknowledgement regeneration is not the same as conviction or repentance, and conviction and repentance are not identical to salvation.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Why would I do that?? "Calvinist Regeneration" does appear to have the same effect as "Conviction of sin", and isn't the same as "Salvation" at all.
FOr everybody else that doesn't use "Calvie-Speak", "Regeneration" is synonymous with Salvation. Just religious word games.
And "Conviction of SIN" leading to REPENTANCE certainly DOES result in Becoming Born again / Saved by FAITH (God's WORD to you).
When someone does not respond to a point it's called ignorting it
i made a point you ignored it
yep and remission of sin logically precedes regeneration
Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
and still do so
Josheb
Well-known member
Said the pot calling the kettle black.
Tere's not a single point you have ever made that has been ignored. The problem isn't that others ignore your quote mined straw men non-points. It is that much of what you post does not warrant a response other than to point out it's utter fallaciousness and what is posted in response to your posts appears so far over your comprehension the responses are "You ignore! You ignore!"
This op has been answered, answered decisively, and answered diversely.
God's word has the power to save those God intends it to save and it condemns those God intends it to condemn. Same word with different purposes as God wills. Not one saved person will have been able to save themselves no matter how well the listened, heard, understood, or willed. Not one condemned person will be able to escape their condemnation no matter how much their unregenerate flesh listens, hears, understands, and/or wills. Apart from God the condemned can do nothing but wait. The only thing the sinner brings to his salvation is the sin from which he is being saved.
Last edited:
LOL
you ignored this
yep and remission of sin logically precedes regeneration
Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
are you going to deal with it
show it is fallacious don't just talk about it
Josheb
Well-known member
As I said before: no shifting onuses, Bob. You posted some things that aren't true or correct and no matter what Calvinists may say or not say those claims warrant correction. It has nothing to do with what Cals say and everything ALONE to do with what you posted.
What's why you should do that.
Salvation is when you respond in faith to God's word (Conviction of sin) repent, and cry out in faith for Jesus' sin offering to cleanse you from your sin, and make you perfect in Jesus before God.
That is not salvation.
Lots of people respond in faith to God's word and are not saved.*
Lots of people are convicted of sin and are not saved.*
Lots of people repent and are not saved.*
Lots of people cry out and are not saved.*
When we combine this with what you said in another thread: "regeneration is salvation," a series of equivalencies are created that are nowhere found in scripture, and it was all couched in the sinner, not God. One of the reasons those people who do those things are not saved is because they are not regenerate, and their behaviors are nothing more than fleshly works. It has nothing to do with what Cals say or don't say.
*examples for each were provided.
.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
That sounds like a Roman Catholic homily , but it does NOT sound like the gospel that Jesus and the Apostles taught.
Josheb
Well-known member
No, you just didn't understand how it was already addressed.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Really?? It has been for me since '63.
Nope
remission of sin logically precedes regeneration
Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
and as you seemed to indicate
You should feel convicted and repent, cry out in faith for Christ to cleanse you of those sins and be made perfect. Let's see if that happens.
cleansing from sin follows after repentance which of course requires faith
so faith precedes regeneration
Josheb
Well-known member
Non sequitur
Humans are not the measure of God's word, and it is the epitome of hubris to imagine human perceptions decide the matter. I do not doubt that you have done all that you've said but personal anecdotal report is not the measure of salvation. A deterministic Calvinist might give similar testimony and describe himself as brought every step of the way against his will and then we'd have two "eyewitnesses" with completely different reports. Either they are both correct, or one correct and the other not correct, or neither are correct. The written word of scripture would be the measure of their witness.
As far as the witness you give of yourself the posts contradict themselves and your response to that is, "Really?? It has been that way for me since '63."
Last edited:
Josheb
Well-known member
Yep
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
I freely admit that I probably DO "Contradict" your personal interpretataions of things, however I've NEVER "Contradicted myself" here. And, of course I don't use "Calvie-speak" word definitions. That you don't accept my personal testimony is expected, and unimportant.
That does not address this
remission of sin logically precedes regeneration
Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
and as you seemed to indicate
You should feel convicted and repent, cry out in faith for Christ to cleanse you of those sins and be made perfect. Let's see if that happens.
cleansing from sin follows after repentance which of course requires faith
so faith precedes regeneration
or do you now want to concede the point
Josheb
Well-known member
You did, Bob, and my bringing those contradictions to you has nothing to do with Calvinism. The words themselves contradict one another. No Calvinist is need to see the contradictions...
...and the attempt to make the contradictions about me and my Calvinism is lame.
Lots of people respond in faith to God's word and are not saved.*
Lots of people are convicted of sin and are not saved.*
Lots of people repent and are not saved.*
Lots of people cry out and are not saved.*
It has nothing to do with Calvinism.
Appeals to personal anecdotal experience are just as worthless as appeals to ridicule, ad hominem, red herrings, and straw men (all of which you've deployed instead of admitting response, conviction, repentance, and crying out are not the same as salvation, otherwise the hypocrites of Mathhew 7, the people in the fiery lake, JWs and LDSes would all be saved.
It has nothing to do with Calvinism.
Josheb
Well-known member
Yes it does.