A Yes or No Question For Trins

Newbirth said:
The body without the spirit is dead... the body with the spirit is a living soul. Gen 2:7

How does that nullify Gen 2:7?..the spirit comes from God the soul is the body after God breathes the spirit into it., and the body is made from dust. That is not rocket science.


Of course, they are not the same, except you think that the soul is immaterial but the scripture does not teach that.

I never said that

I never said that either. Why are you not addressing what I actually said?.... Read it slowly...I said the spirit and the body is the soul according to Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
If you disagree then take it up wit the author of Genesis.

If this is your argument please show the scripture saying so.
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The spirit and the body is not the soul according to scripture. While the soul is in the body it can bee seen as the entire person, but when the body dies the soul leaves. You are misinterpreting Genesis 2:7. When the spirit gives life to the body, then the soul/person that is inside it can live. When the Apostle Paul says "absent from the body" he is referring to the soul as a distinct entity from the body. It has to be in order to be absent from it. The soul is not immaterial it is the person and has its own substance apart from the physical body. You are eliminating the soul as it is taught in scripture as a distinct entity from the body.
 
Newbirth said:
In what verse? You cannot show a verse saying remnant in heaven in Rev 14.
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I spent six years doing an expository study of the Book of Revelation. The 144,00 is the remnant and they are seen in heaven in Rev. 14:1-5. In verse five they are singing before the throne and specifically referred to as being redeemed from the earth.
 
Newbirth said:
Those came out from great tribulation after the sixth seal was open......So when was the sixth seal opened?
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The sixth seal was opened by Jesus in heaven to show John what was going to happen to the church in the latter days. Chapter six is in three parts. Part one, verses 1-8 show the persecutors of the church. Verses 9-11 show the souls of the martyrs who are resting in heaven crying for their vindication. Part three is when the sixth seal is opened and that shows in verses 12-17, their ultimate vindication which takes place just before Jesus returns.
The remnant is safely in heaven in 14, they do not go through the great tribulation. The tribulation is in 14: 14-20. The remaing church that has come out of great tribulation is seen in chapter fifteen. These are the same two groups, that are seen in chapter 7. One is protected from the tribulation, the other is left behind to go through it.
 
Biblican said:
The spirit and the body is not the soul according to scripture.
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Gen 2:7 says they are...
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Biblican said:
While the soul is in the body it can bee seen as the entire person, but when the body dies the soul leaves.
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Where is the scripture to support your claim?
Biblican said:
You are misinterpreting Genesis 2:7.
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In what way...It is clear that God made the body from dust and it was not alive...God breathe the breath of life into the lifeless body and it became a living soul...
Biblican said:
When the spirit gives life to the body, then the soul/person that is inside it can live.
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That is rubbish and not written anywhere in the scripture. You are claiming there is a person inside the body...
Biblican said:
When the Apostle Paul says "absent from the body" he is referring to the soul as a distinct entity from the body.
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No, he is not...The spirit is absent from the body...
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Biblican said:
It has to be in order to be absent from it.
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No, it does not... Paul does not say the soul is absent from the body.
Biblican said:
The soul is not immaterial it is the person and has its own substance apart from the physical body.
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If the soul is not immaterial, then the soul must have a physical body (material) and a spirit to live...You just refuted your own argument
Biblican said:
You are eliminating the soul as it is taught in scripture as a distinct entity from the body.
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Where is that taught in the scripture?
 
Biblican said:
The sixth seal was opened by Jesus in heaven to show John what was going to happen to the church in the latter days.
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The sixth seal is not yet opened...John was given a vision of the future.
Biblican said:
Chapter six is in three parts. Part one, verses 1-8 show the persecutors of the church.
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The church is not exposed to the opening of the seals.
Biblican said:
Verses 9-11 show the souls of the martyrs who are resting in heaven crying for their vindication.
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Those are the church and they must wait for the remnant of Israel.
Biblican said:
Part three is when the sixth seal is opened and that shows in verses 12-17, their ultimate vindication which takes place just before Jesus returns.
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The church is not on earth for the wrath of God.
Biblican said:
The remnant is safely in heaven in 14, they do not go through the great tribulation. The tribulation is in 14: 14-20.
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That is not tribulation that is the wrath of God...
Biblican said:
The remaing church that has come out of great tribulation is seen in chapter fifteen.
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Chapter 15 is in heaven...The last to be taken from the earth are the 144000 in chapter 7
Biblican said:
These are the same two groups, that are seen in chapter 7. One is protected from the tribulation, the other is left behind to go through it.
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You are calling the wrath of God tribulation Believers are not on earth in the day of God's wrath. In fact, you have put all dead believers in heaven without a resurrection...Is there no resurrection in your theology? If so when is it and who are resurrected if they are already in heaven?
 
Newbirth said:
The sixth seal is not yet opened...John was given a vision of the future.

The church is not exposed to the opening of the seals.

Those are the church and they must wait for the remnant of Israel.

The church is not on earth for the wrath of God.

That is not tribulation that is the wrath of God...

Chapter 15 is in heaven...The last to be taken from the earth are the 144000 in chapter 7

You are calling the wrath of God tribulation Believers are not on earth in the day of God's wrath. In fact, you have put all dead believers in heaven without a resurrection...Is there no resurrection in your theology? If so when is it and who are resurrected if they are already in heaven?
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You are mixing up the timing of the tribulation and the wrath.
Newbirth said:
The sixth seal is not yet opened...John was given a vision of the future.

The church is not exposed to the opening of the seals.

Those are the church and they must wait for the remnant of Israel.

The church is not on earth for the wrath of God.

That is not tribulation that is the wrath of God...

Chapter 15 is in heaven...The last to be taken from the earth are the 144000 in chapter 7

You are calling the wrath of God tribulation Believers are not on earth in the day of God's wrath. In fact, you have put all dead believers in heaven without a resurrection...Is there no resurrection in your theology? If so when is it and who are resurrected if they are already in heaven?
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You are confusing the timing of the tribulation with the wrath. The wrath occurs after the tribulation and after Jesus sends His angels to gather the remaining Christians on earth. That is the first resurrection. Read Matthew 24.Then the wrath is poured out while the church is celebrating the marriage supper of the Lamb before Jesus' return. This is the only time there will be no true Christian on earth. The tribulation occurs in the latter part of chapter fourteen and that is when Israel is attacked and the second captivity occurs before the Lord's return. The remnant 144,00 have been raptured and that is why they are seen in heaven in the first part of fourteen before the tribulation. The overcoming saints that have endured the tribulation which includes many that will come to the Lord during this time are seen in heave, because they have died and are rejoicing there.
The sixth seal was obviously opened by Jesus, but the events do not happen until sometime in the future.
In chapter 7 there are two groups the 144,000 and the overcomers. They are not the same.
 
Newbirth said:
of course, it is...the body without the spirit is dead...the soul that sinneth will die.
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The body and the soul are two different elements. The soul that sins dies, in other words it will not receive eternal life unless the soul receives God's plan of redemption in Jesus. The soul goes to hell if it rejects the gospel, but the body rots.
 
Newbirth said:
Gen 2:7 says they are...
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Where is the scripture to support your claim?

In what way...It is clear that God made the body from dust and it was not alive...God breathe the breath of life into the lifeless body and it became a living soul...

That is rubbish and not written anywhere in the scripture. You are claiming there is a person inside the body...

No, he is not...The spirit is absent from the body...
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

No, it does not... Paul does not say the soul is absent from the body.

If the soul is not immaterial, then the soul must have a physical body (material) and a spirit to live...You just refuted your own argument

Where is that taught in the scripture?
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You know I have given you the scriptures to support my position and you ignore them. You are doing that because you cannot refute them.
There is a person inside the body which is just a shell or container that decays when the breath of life leaves. The soul remains and must be saved.
"To be absent from the body" there is a distinction being made here between the soul and the body.
The soul does have mass, not a physical body.
Again, and for the last time, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:23. The Apostle Paul obviously recognizes that there are three, spirit, that gives life to the body and enables the soul to live in the body, the soul which is the person or being of anyone and needs to be saved and the physical body. We are instructed to follow the teachings of Jesus and the apostles and this is what the apostle taught which is also supported by the other examples I have given you previously. If you choose to follow someone else's teaching above the apostles, then you are in apostasy.
 
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