Steven Avery
Well-known member
Nope.
He was obviously aware that there was a Tischendorf-supplied manuscript at the library.
You made various claims about intense study that have vaporized.
Codex Sinaiticus and Constantine Simonides - arrest and imprisonment in Berlin 1856
- Thread starter TwoNoteableCorruptions
- Start date
Nope.
He was obviously aware that there was a Tischendorf-supplied manuscript at the library.
You made various claims about intense study that have vaporized.
Steven Avery
Well-known member
If a beautiful almost-new manuscript can be passed off as ancient, it would help his market.
We covered this before.
Steven Avery
Well-known member
True.
There was a quote earlier that he would be looked on as a mad man, or insane. (I'd like to find that again.)
Raising this issue could be a major hindrance to his ongoing pursuits in Germany, which were complex and tricky, with Uranios and multiple Hermas editions and more.
So since the CFA was really not such a big deal at the time, discretion would be the better part of valor, if he did see it and recognized it as the 1840's Mt. Athos production.
Remember, none of the German scholars knew where the CFA came from.
£287,861.39
TwoNoteableCorruptions
Well-known member
Red flag everyone
Hypocrisy alarm ? going off..
Double standard alarm ?? also ringing.
This is the guy who's effectively saying Simonides had no pecuniary interest in the Codex Siniaticus whatsoever (just a few posts ago)...
Here he says, out of the other corner of his mouth:
Hmmmmmm
Steven Avery
Well-known member
Red flag everyone
Hypocrisy alarm ? going off..
Double standard alarm ?? also ringing.
This is the guy who's effectively saying Simonides had no pecuniary interest in the Codex Siniaticus whatsoever (just a few posts ago)...
Here he says, out of the other corner of his mouth:
Hmmmmmm
His pecuniary interest was hurt when he gave up the claim that ir was a beautiful, perfect condition, ancient manuscript.
Try to think.
TwoNoteableCorruptions
Well-known member
TwoNoteableCorruptions
Well-known member
But, just a moment ago, you were effectively claiming he didn't have any pecuniary interest...
No you're admitting he did...
And they were hurt...
Your contradicting yourself.
Revision to my previously estimated amounts
The Uranio(u)s swindle.
5000 Thalers was the eventually size of the swindle on the Royal Academy of Sciences in Berlin with Simonides demanding and receiving 2000 in a separate contract with Dindorf. It seems Dindorf was also wanting a large share of the pie - did Dindorf (a Simonides dupe) pocket the difference between 5000 and 2000 Thalers?
From Stanley Porter's Book, "THE LIFE AND WORK OF A 19TH CENTURY BIBLE HUNTER", p. 119, 5000 Thalers is £750 in 1844. The $/£ exchange rate was 5:1 in the 1850s (although in the 1860s (US Civil War era) it shot up to 10:1 for a short while before dropping back down to 5:1 twenty years later). So 5000 Thalers is $3750 in 1855. Today that is $129,672.41 (the swindle on the Berlin Academy). Pocketed by Simonides was circa $51,000 in today's money (2000 Thalers).
£10,000 in 1862 assuming a 5:1 exchange rate is $1,489,306.93 today.
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The Athenaeum, February 23rd, 1856, Kallinicos Hieromonachus letter forgery detection
"Royal Society of Literature - Feb. 11. - Sir H. C. Rawlinson in the chair. - The Report of the Council was read on the Papyri from the Museum of Mr. Mayer, at Liverpool, strongly condemning the whole project as forgeries, probably of recent times, after which Aldis Wright read a paper ' On the Codex Sinaiticus,' in which he traced its history, and showed by what means M. Tischendorf had procured it. Mr. Wright then noticed the strange assertion of Simonides; that he had written this Codex himself, and produced the original letter addressed to the Guardian newspaper by a person calling himself Callinicus (sic.) Hieromonachus, and written ostensibly at Alexandria. Mr. Wright showed by a comparison between this letter and other letters of Simonides, admitted to be genuine — and exhibited side by side with it —that the epistle of the so-called Callinicus Hieromonachus was in the handwriting of Simonides; himself; and that, therefore, he must have written this letter in England and sent it out to some person in Alexandria, who posted it back again to London. The inference drawn from these facts may be supposed."
"Royal Society of Literature - Feb. 11. - Sir H. C. Rawlinson in the chair. - The Report of the Council was read on the Papyri from the Museum of Mr. Mayer, at Liverpool, strongly condemning the whole project as forgeries, probably of recent times, after which Aldis Wright read a paper ' On the Codex Sinaiticus,' in which he traced its history, and showed by what means M. Tischendorf had procured it. Mr. Wright then noticed the strange assertion of Simonides; that he had written this Codex himself, and produced the original letter addressed to the Guardian newspaper by a person calling himself Callinicus (sic.) Hieromonachus, and written ostensibly at Alexandria. Mr. Wright showed by a comparison between this letter and other letters of Simonides, admitted to be genuine — and exhibited side by side with it —that the epistle of the so-called Callinicus Hieromonachus was in the handwriting of Simonides; himself; and that, therefore, he must have written this letter in England and sent it out to some person in Alexandria, who posted it back again to London. The inference drawn from these facts may be supposed."
TwoNoteableCorruptions
Well-known member
In other words, he got caught! Plain and simple.
Cjab. A small typo. This is actually dated 1863, not 1856, at the link.
But what it did show, is that the truth came out eventually, after three years of Simonides charlatanism and lying bravado.
Steven Avery
Well-known member
Starting at the beginning at St. Catherine’s, what did Wright say about the 1844 theft of 5 intact quires and three leaves, and how these supposedly random leaves have the key palaeographic spots?
This article from the "Athena" newspaper in Athens (Ἀθηνᾶ, ἀρ. φύλ. 2382, 03.03.1856: 2-3) indeed alleges that it was Dindorf's agents who pocked the 3000 Thaler difference.
Interestingly, it refers to Dindorf as the
"professor of stocks and shares ('Aktein Professor' as he is here called [in Germany] "
NB: shortly after 1871 Dindorf lost all his property by rash speculations.
You'll have to elaborate and provide proofs of authenticity. I have no idea what you're referring to.
Here is a fairly lengthy evaluation of Tischendorf's behavior in respect of the 1859 event.
Steven Avery
Well-known member
Why need give a reference that can actually be found easily?
SimonidesGERMAN.pdf
Konstantinos Simonides is one of the most versatile nineteenth century forgers of ancient manuscripts. Because of the extent and diversity of his rich production, he caused controversy among experts of his time and became a legendary persona, who
www.academia.edu
It seems that the Greek Athena newspaper was one of the few to consistently denounce Simonides. It refused to be blinded by his ostensible Hellenism. (To look up these newspaper articles about Simonides, use "Σχετικά με τα χειρόγραφα του Σιμωνίδη" or just "Σιμωνίδη" in the "title" or "any field" search box.)
Here is the Athena's denounciation of Simonides and his "scum-bag gang" of admirers in Leipzig (I have amended the google translation somewhat):
NB: This link will pull in other interesting stuff by Simonides, but (strangely) it leaves out many of the articles above.
NB2: Not sure why the article above, dated "3/3/1856," appears to predate the article to which it refers i.e. "this newspaper in August" article, dated 2/8/1856. (I can find no reference to an earlier article in August of the previous year - 1855.)
Here is the Athena's denounciation of Simonides and his "scum-bag gang" of admirers in Leipzig (I have amended the google translation somewhat):
"You have already learned extensively about the loud-ringing Simonides from the German newspapers and from the pamphlet of K. Lykourgos; which revealed the most, and these were well received throughout Germany, and in no small measure contributed to the national honor, considering that a Greek exposed the cheating Greek, just as this newspaper of August (see note 2 at end) intimated in its assessment of this pamphlet. .
"This truth is felt and confessed by everyone and by those who have even the slightest spark of national feeling. Unfortunately, however, in this society, to the shame of Greece, there are also some malignant scum-bags, called Greeks, but having neither education nor the sense of Greekness, really betray the national conception and are full of Jewish malice!
"Everyone who has even a small spark of national feeling feels and confesses this truth.
"These, not only before the arrest of Simonides (whence it was possible for them to have rights as unknowingly deceived), but also after this revelation of the fraud (so that, as it seems consistent) do not stop defending the forger with fervent zeal, as those of the same habits.
"Since they have neither the courage nor the strength to defend him publicly, and their united voice is not heard at all, having no other way to cure the great disfavor of their ignorance, the wretches take refuge in darkness, writing anonymous letters to the honorable faces of German Philhellenes, taking an active part in the discovery of the fraud, full of insults and much nonsense.
"To such means this "nice" and "law-abiding" (criminal) gang have resorted in former times - means that are both reckless and obscene, and that show desperation in failures; but let it and its experienced officers learn that those days are gone, and the persons are different. And let them be content that their wickedness may remain known only to themselves, the ones in Leipzig, and let them not move the spectator too much, for they will repent to no avail when, publicly and in name, they stand before the Panhellene. The prudent few."
.NB: This link will pull in other interesting stuff by Simonides, but (strangely) it leaves out many of the articles above.
NB2: Not sure why the article above, dated "3/3/1856," appears to predate the article to which it refers i.e. "this newspaper in August" article, dated 2/8/1856. (I can find no reference to an earlier article in August of the previous year - 1855.)
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Steven Avery
Well-known member
Interesting.
Steven Avery
Well-known member
I’d like to see the Kallinikos writings that TNC says he has.
Steven Avery
Well-known member
The other day I supplied a powerful list to TNC of corroborating evidences of the 1844 Tischendorf CFA theft.
You want me to prove the authenticity of the theft?