Why Jews will never accept Jesus

[Open Heart]

Yep, apostasy is consistent.

Apostasy? Is he a Jew?

 

[tbeachhead]

But it's just not true. Indeed the early church appointed teachers. And the apostles chose as elders those they could trust to teach rightly.

You are missing my point...I am a teacher appointed by God, and every time I think I'm done, he puts me in another classroom with folks who have all been taught by Him.

And it's not like teaching French students who have never learned the language. It's like teaching students who have heard a Voice, but they didn't even know where their thoughts came from.

I sat in a tree, lonely and alone. My friends did not like me around. Seven or eight years old, I was not one to enjoy rejection well...and I cried. We were going to a nominal Christian Church at the time, but I loved the stories, and understood that God was alive, so I cried out, and said, "God why am I so lonely. And why am I such a crybaby?"

I heard a voice: "Look at your hand. I've made you a thumb on a handful of fingers. You will never fit. Be useful."

It changed my life...and a decade later I learned that He promised it would be like this. No one taught me the gospel, but many were sent to help me know the voice I was hearing was God's. this is the promise. I confirm what the Holy Spirit has already taught. Jesus put it like this: "The scribe instructed in the Kingdom takes from the treasure of his storehouse something old and something new." I confirm what you know...and add a thought. The thought, being His, will always be smarter than I could ever be.

Hope this helps.

 

[Open Heart]

I don't understand. Sorry...Are you sayin, "Oh...I missed that?" Because your claim was inaccurate. He's talking about purifying the vessels of worship with blood.

I can't agree. Vessels of worship have never atoned.

 

[Biblican]

It is not a sacrifice.

An animal died to cover Adam and Eve. They could not cover themselves, it had to be done by an act of God. This sets the precendece for the Gospel. We cannot cover ourselves, or justify ourselves before God, it has to be done by God Himself. By the way, the word sacrifice in Hebrew means drawing close. It is through the death of the Messiah we can draw close to God. He will not accept our fig leaves.

 

[Open Heart]

You are missing my point...I am a teacher appointed by God, and every time I think I'm done, he puts me in another classroom with folks who have all been taught by Him.

And it's not like teaching French students who have never learned the language. It's like teaching students who have heard a Voice, but they didn't even know where their thoughts came from.

I sat in a tree, lonely and alone. My friends did not like me around. Seven or eight years old, I was not one to enjoy rejection well...and I cried. We were going to a nominal Christian Church at the time, but I loved the stories, and understood that God was alive, so I cried out, and said, "God why am I so lonely. And why am I such a crybaby?"

I heard a voice: "Look at your hand. I've made you a thumb on a handful of fingers. You will never fit. Be useful."

It changed my life...and a decade later I learned that He promised it would be like this. No one taught me the gospel, but many were sent to help me know the voice I was hearing was God's. this is the promise. I confirm what the Holy Spirit has already taught. Jesus put it like this: "The scribe instructed in the Kingdom takes from the treasure of his storehouse something old and something new." I confirm what you know...and add a thought. The thought, being His, will always be smarter than I could ever be.

Hope this helps.

I've had God speak to me this way also. Interestingly it has never been about doctrine or beliefs. It has always been about something deeper.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Why do you ignore key issues...Yes Abraham was circumcised and his household...Both Jeremiah and Moses expand that to a matter of the heart. No Jew is Israel who is circumcised in the flesh only, and not in the heart. That is why Paul says

You quote Paul like that adds weight to your argument. It doesn't.

"They are not all Israel who are called Israel." Both Manasseh and Ahaz, and even Ahab for that matter, were circumcised. Tophet is the fruit of that...The blessings of Abraham transcend the flesh...it is an inward affair of the heart...As you say, "Torah grows from within."

Two different concepts. Physical Israel by descent and child of God by obedience. You need both and the church doesn't have either.

It clearly matters for you. And in the garden, we were all united as one race in Adam.

Were.

I just read them what is written. They can see what took place from there.

OK...Just saying, you won't either, until you're born again. In fact, you CANNOT see the kingdom of God until that happens.

So you're born again only to be lawless? You still don't know what it means... new heart and mind with the laws.

Neither explains the backside...Isaiah states where sin lies, and Exodus demonstrates fully the nature of the NAME. God doesn't have to "explain" why we cannot look on His face.

It's explained. You understand the concept of metaphors? Do you understand that panai in Hebrew means presence, face, blessings, curses, etc., and that we can't see God's presence? What's left that you can see?

וַיִּיצֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶת־ הָֽאָדָ֗ם עָפָר֙ מִן־ הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה

Best I could do, but that's the wording...I'm sure there is error in the Hebrew. I copied as best as I could, but yatsar is what a potter does.

Yep, I don't see a hole in the ground or hands forming man. Dig a little deeper, no pun intended.

"Formed/fashioned from the dust of the earth." Funny...I'd think you'd want to attribute accuracy to God's description.

Yep, the problem is your stuck in a physical paradigm.

See...this is something that is unique in all of creation: He did speak for every other being but man...man, he spoke, "Let's create man in our image", then he yatsared like a potter and formed. He did this for no other created being in the account. I'm catching the contrast, and seeing the difference. He then took that which He formed...not what He spoke, and gave him dominion over all that had been spoken.

Aren't words formed by speech and letters?

You're worried about His hands, and these are His very words. Why does this trouble you so?

I'm not worried. No hands are mentioned. That's your physical paradigm.

I'm done with these questions.

 

[Biblican]

Jeremiah 31:31-34 is very clear the New Covenant focuses on the same laws written on the hearts and minds of the houses of Israel and Judah. You're attempting to rip the verses out of context, which you've done to support your ideology in other areas and here. That's why no learned Jew will accept your crap.

Take care. We're done here.

No Jew will accept it because they are lousy Bible scholars and take scriptures out of context consistently. That's why they invented Takenot to justify their doctrines and contradict what the scriptures actually teach. God gave the New Everlasting Covenat after the captivity through Jesus. There is no other Messiah appearing in scripoture after the destruction of the second temple.

 

[Biblican]

Anointed is used all over Tanakh. Daniel 9 shows Cyrus and Israel as the two anointed as I've shown previously.

And according to the Midrash and all the other Hebrew writings they only expected the Messiah, the Redeemer to be one person, not Cyrus or Israel.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Apostasy? Is he a Jew?

By descent, if his testimony is true, yes. But then again the testimony of an apostate is not valid. That's why the NT was null and void and not considered valid. Eusebius notes that even the Torah keeping Jews that believed Jesus was just a man who advanced in righteousness, saw Paul as an apostate and his letters of little value.

 

[Jewjitzu]

No Jew will accept it because they are lousy Bible scholars and take scriptures out of context consistently. That's why they invented Takenot to justify their doctrines and contradict what the scriptures actually teach. God gave the New Everlasting Covenat after the captivity through Jesus. There is no other Messiah appearing in scripoture after the destruction of the second temple.

Rotfl....

You can't even get by the clear wording in Jeremiah 31:31-34. You're not in it and Messiah isn't mentioned.

 

[Jewjitzu]

And according to the Midrash and all the other Hebrew writings they only expected the Messiah, the Redeemer to be one person, not Cyrus or Israel.

And they say he hasn't come yet. You forget that. Rotfl...

 

[Biblican]

We all have God's Spirit if we follow His will. Nothing special about Jesus.


You've just given parts which God doesn't have.


You misunderstand.


As is anyone that follows God's will.


Wrong conclusion.


Metatron is only an angel here.


The name of an angel, not God Himself.


No mention of Messiah as Megatron. You and your sources are wrong.

You're striking out all over.

You don't have the Holy Spirit indwelling you to give you eternal life. That can only be received through Jesus.
The parts that God has are in the scripture. He has a soul, Nephesh and is Spirit, Ruach.
Metatron was considered to be the Messiah. The Messiah is referred to as the Angel of His presence in scripture. The Mimra is also seen as the Messiah in the Hebrew writings. You need to study more.

 

[Biblican]

And they say he hasn't come yet. You forget that. Rotfl...

He came before the second temple was destroyed as the prophets expected. There is no other messiah appearing in scripture after the
destruction of the second temple.

 

[Biblican]

Rotfl....

You can't even get by the clear wording in Jeremiah 31:31-34. You're not in it and Messiah isn't mentioned.

Another example of your inability to connect the dots.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You don't have the Holy Spirit indwelling you to give you eternal life. That can only be received through Jesus.

Wrong, Ezekiel 36:26-27 destroys your argument. Obedience is evidence of the spirit.

The parts that God has are in the scripture. He has a soul, Nephesh and is Spirit, Ruach.

Then your god is physical and created.

Metatron was considered to be the Messiah. The Messiah is referred to as the Angel of His presence in scripture. The Mimra is also seen as the Messiah in the Hebrew writings. You need to study more.

Wrong, and the references you gave say otherwise . Memra is just the spoken word, or wisdom.

 

[Jewjitzu]

He came before the second temple was destroyed as the prophets expected. There is no other messiah appearing in scripture after the
destruction of the second temple.

You quoted the Rabbis and they said he hasn't come yet. You shot yourself in the foot.

When he comes, the whole world will know.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Another example of your inability to connect the dots.

No, you just can't accept the actual context and simple reading.

Move on from your crayons.

 

[Jewjitzu]

He came before the second temple was destroyed as the prophets expected. There is no other messiah appearing in scripture after the
destruction of the second temple.

Repeating poo doesn't help you.

 

[tbeachhead]

You're a bit ignorant here. We see in Yoma 85b:

The Sabbath was handed over to you, and you were not handed over to the Sabbath.

If circumcision, which concerns one of the 248 members of the body, overrides the Sabbath, shall not a man's whole body override the Sabbath?

I'm not just "a bit" ignorant, my friend. I'm totally ignorant. That's why I'm asking questions. When were these statements written? The Talmud was not complete until after the New Testament, am I right? Hundreds of years after. We learned from each other for a time.

Like I said before, you're not presenting anything new that I haven't seen.

Like I said, I'm not trying to prove anything...I'm glad you're satisfied.

Not perhaps, it did for hateful and antisemitic reasons.

Or to chronicle the problems of the day. These were Jews writing, who, for their writing, were also stoned, beheaded and tortured...sometimes by their own. Christianity is not the chronicle of a nation sent out with a sword to decimate cities and plunder. In contrast to most major religions, the sword came at them...and they conquered despite it. The Christian's "Promised Land" is the heart of their neighbor.

Yep, apostasy is consistent.

In every religion.

That's a fact that should encourage humility...doesn't though, much, does it?

The NT confuses its facts.

Or not. The historicity of the texts are a standard...rivaling yours.

Still a name.

With meaning.

Jesus born like a man, bled and died like one.

No argument...Conception is the contrasting moment.

Rotfl... Paul was no Pharisee, just a wanna be gnostic and apostate. Until he started abrogating Torah and teaching the same, sure, he was in good standing.

As ignorant as I am about your Mishnas...you're quite ignorant about gnosticism. Paul could be no gnostic. Paul had seen first hand the Holy Spirit's consistent demands on gentile disciples. It's not abrogation, but there is a basis in the Spirit that transcended washing hands and dishes. You reject Paul's experience, because you have not had it.

The spirit of holiness dictating that all Gentiles must start adhering to the basic laws so that they could learn, and worship on the Sabbath. The church is far removed from this.

Or the Law is deeper than you know. That's the point.

Paul as an apostate claimed Roman citizenship to escape condemnation of the Jewish courts. The very ones he was working previous under the Sadducees.

The Jewish courts had conspired to assassinate him contrary to their Laws, and Caiaphas and Annas had already demonstrated the apostate nature of their claims to office. Paul appealing to Caesar was his means of fulfilling the vision to come to Rome. He took advantage of the Leadership's unlawful conspiracy.

If... with the talpiot tombs find of Jesus's ossuary with that of his wife, son, and James, etc., I doubt it.

Wahahahaha...That bogus, ludicrous "find" was a joke. Jesus would never have married. That's gnostic nonsense. He was already betrothed, and the joy of His Bride, set before him, strengthened Him to endure the cross.

Paul claims to have special revelation that no other apostle had. That's as gnostic as it gets.

Paul imparted everything he received that was lawful to impart. That's as un-gnostic as you get. He wasn't an elite with secret knowledge. He was a teacher. Simple as that.

Sigh... The pattern is not based on a heavenly temple. God doesn't sit on a physical throne.

Sigh. Tell that to Isaiah. Get back to me...or not. You said you're through again.

I'm not exhibiting pride, just a firm stance.

I'll call it a mix. You have a right to pride.

Like I said, nothing new in your arguments.

Then they're still valid. Come to see the reason behind them.

You're dating yourself with Bozo, but I can understand your need to belittle.

No...You're redundant in your rejection as if it mattered to me that I'm "scoring points." You are scoring. These conversations have been immeasurably above most. And I am learning.

God doesn't sit on a physical throne. These are riddles and visions that must be understood. The Sinai revelation explains a lot Deut 4:9,12,35.

So, I'm done here TBH.

Again...Tell Isaiah that he didn't see what he saw. I'm ready to watch that conversation. And thank you for this conversation. You can be done any time. I'll be here for a while.

 

[Jewjitzu]

I'm not just "a bit" ignorant, my friend. I'm totally ignorant. That's why I'm asking questions. When were these statements written? The Talmud was not complete until after the New Testament, am I right? Hundreds of years after. We learned from each other for a time.

They were compiled between 200 - 600 BCE? But the practices date back to before the 2nd temple.

Anyway, TBH, I'm done here.

Like I said, I'm not trying to prove anything...I'm glad you're satisfied.
Or to chronicle the problems of the day. These were Jews writing, who, for their writing, were also stoned, beheaded and tortured...sometimes by their own. Christianity is not the chronicle of a nation sent out with a sword to decimate cities and plunder. In contrast to most major religions, the sword came at them...and they conquered despite it. The Christian's "Promised Land" is the heart of their neighbor.
In every religion.

That's a fact that should encourage humility...doesn't though, much, does it?
Or not. The historicity of the texts are a standard...rivaling yours.
With meaning.
No argument...Conception is the contrasting moment.
As ignorant as I am about your Mishnas...you're quite ignorant about gnosticism. Paul could be no gnostic. Paul had seen first hand the Holy Spirit's consistent demands on gentile disciples. It's not abrogation, but there is a basis in the Spirit that transcended washing hands and dishes. You reject Paul's experience, because you have not had it.
Or the Law is deeper than you know. That's the point.

The Jewish courts had conspired to assassinate him contrary to their Laws, and Caiaphas and Annas had already demonstrated the apostate nature of their claims to office. Paul appealing to Caesar was his means of fulfilling the vision to come to Rome. He took advantage of the Leadership's unlawful conspiracy.


Wahahahaha...That bogus, ludicrous "find" was a joke. Jesus would never have married. That's gnostic nonsense. He was already betrothed, and the joy of His Bride, set before him, strengthened Him to endure the cross.
Paul imparted everything he received that was lawful to impart. That's as un-gnostic as you get. He wasn't an elite with secret knowledge. He was a teacher. Simple as that.


Sigh. Tell that to Isaiah. Get back to me...or not. You said you're through again.

I'll call it a mix. You have a right to pride.
Then they're still valid. Come to see the reason behind them.
No...You're redundant in your rejection as if it mattered to me that I'm "scoring points." You are scoring. These conversations have been immeasurably above most. And I am learning.

Again...Tell Isaiah that he didn't see what he saw. I'm ready to watch that conversation. And thank you for this conversation. You can be done any time. I'll be here for a while.