Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
I have never seen you say this but it seems common among many Calvinist that faith is gifted by God to the elect so it was a done deal before they ever believed or trusted in Jesus.
The conundrum of faith and the Calvinist
- Thread starter Joe
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guest1
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You are correct
eternomade
Well-known member
Yes. At some point in your life God will overpower your will to bring you to faith and repentance.
Also, no one decides to not believe. Unbelief is how everyone is born. One will not be convinced of them gospel being true unless they are already born again.
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guest1
Guest
And 1 John describes in 5 chapters what those who are born again live like and look like compared to those who claim they are but are not really born again .
John gives us several tests to determine the children of God from the children of the devil
hope this helps !!!
eternomade
Well-known member
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
1 John 5:1 ESV
My obedience before God is perfect because Jesus imputed His obedience to me. This does not make me intrinsically righteous though. Just like Jesus isn't intrinsically a sinner.
Most of what you say doesn't help BTW.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
I am not against saying that, but I usually say Faith springs from the New Birth. I have no problem agreeing with Calvinists because Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit. Since it is the Fruit of the Spirit after Justification, I have no problem believing Godly Faith is always the Fruit of the Spirit. If Faith is not the Fruit of the Spirit at First, but is the Fruit of the Spirit after that; then we must agree these Faiths are two distinct Categories of Faith. Faith which is not the Fruit of the Spirit is Fruit of the Flesh; a Filthy-Rag faith...
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guest1
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From Got Questions on practicing sin , living in sin.
In his first epistle, the apostle John deals with the assurance of our salvation: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life” (1 John 5:13). Since he wants his readers to “know” they have eternal life, John provides a test of faith that we can use to examine whether or not we are truly saved.
In 1 John are various descriptions of the genuine believer. If a person knows Christ and is growing in grace, he or she will be generally marked by the following traits:
1. The believer enjoys fellowship with Christ and His redeemed people (1 John 1:3).
2. The believer walks in the light, not in the darkness (1 John 1:6–7).
3. The believer admits and confesses his sin (1 John 1:8).
4. The believer obeys God’s Word (1 John 2:3–5).
5. The believer loves God rather than the world (1 John 2:15).
6. The believer’s life is characterized by “doing what is right” (1 John 2:29).
7. The believer seeks to maintain a pure life (1 John 3:3).
8. The believer sees a decreasing pattern of sin in his life (1 John 3:5–6; 5:18).
9. The believer demonstrates love for other Christians (1 John 3:14).
10. The believer “walks the walk,” versus just “talking the talk” (1 John 3:18–19).
11. The believer maintains a clear conscience (1 John 3:21).
12. The believer experiences victory in his Christian walk (1 John 5:4).
Number 8 in the list above is that the believer will evince a decreasing pattern of sin in his or her life. Here is what John says:
“No one who lives in [Christ] keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him” (1 John 3:6)
and
“We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them” (1 John 5:18)
Some misinterpret these verses to mean that Christians can attain sinless perfection. After all, John says that “no one who lives in Him sins” (1 John 3:6, NASB) and that “no one who is born of God sins” (5:18, NASB). Based on those verses, they reason, sin must be a thing of the past. If you commit a sin, that’s proof that you are not saved, because Christians are sinless. But that is not what John is teaching.
We know that, when John writes that believers do not continue to sin, he is not referring to sinless perfection because of what he writes elsewhere in the same epistle. To believers John says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). So, we are all sinners, and we continue to struggle with sin even after we are saved. We will never know a total absence of sin until we are with the Lord in glory: “When Christ appears, we shall be like him” (1 John 3:2).
If John is not referring to sinless perfection, what does he mean that believers do not continue to sin? Very simply, he means that believers will not continue practicing sin as a way of life. There will be a difference between the old life without Christ and the new life in Christ. The thief who was characterized by his theft is a thief no more; he has a different way of life. The adulterer who was characterized by his immorality is an adulterer no more; his behavior patterns have changed. The child of God who was a former thief may still struggle with covetousness, but he no longer lives according to the pattern of stealing. The child of God who was a former adulterer may still struggle with lust, but he has broken free from the old life of immorality. “All who have this hope in [Christ] purify themselves, just as he is pure” (1 John 3:3).
The Amplified Bible brings out John’s meaning clearly:
“No one who abides in Him [who remains united in fellowship with Him—deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin. No one who habitually sins has seen Him or known Him” (1 John 3:6, AMP)
and
“We know [with confidence] that anyone born of God does not habitually sin; but He (Jesus) who was born of God [carefully] keeps and protects him, and the evil one does not touch him” (1 John 5:18, AMP)
The word habitually is key. A believer will struggle with sin and sometimes give in, but giving in to sin is no longer normative. As we grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord (see 2 Peter 3:18), we are being sanctified. As we are led by the Spirit, we will walk more and more in obedience to the Word of God.
If a person claims to be a Christian but lives in defiance of God’s Word, then that person is showing the world he or she is unsaved. No one who continues to live in willful sin knows God. Because continual sin is incompatible with new life in Christ, living in unrepentant homosexuality, idolatry, or falsehood is proof that no regenerative work of the Spirit has yet taken place in the heart, regardless of anyone’s claims to the contrary.
John gives us the reason why believers do not continue to sin: “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God” (1 John 3:9). A genuine Christian will not “deliberately, knowingly, and habitually” sin. It’s just not in their “spiritual DNA.”
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Does the following sound like God gifts faith to you ?
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guest1
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NoDoes the following sound like God gifts faith to you ?Heb 11:6 - But without faith it isimpossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
No it doesn't...Does the following sound like God gifts faith to you ?Heb 11:6 - But without faith it isimpossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.OR ,Gal 3:22 - But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Who does Gal: 3:22 say receives faith of Jesus Christ ? It is given to those that believe.
David1701
Well-known member
God uses means to his ends. If you have been elected to salvation, then you will believe in Jesus Christ, because that is the means that God has chosen, through which to save his people from their sins.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
You have that 100% backwards:
Does the following sound like God gifts faith to you ?
Heb 11:6 - But without faith it isimpossible to please him: for hethat cometh to God must believe that he is,and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.OR ,
Gal 3:22 - But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Who does Gal: 3:22 say receives faith of Jesus Christ ? It is given to those that believe.
David1701
Well-known member
Neither of these verses refers to the subject of God giving faith. You need to stop posting irrelevant Scriptures, if you are going to discuss a topic properly.You have that 100% backwards:
Does the following sound like God gifts faith to you ?
Heb 11:6 - But without faith it isimpossible to please him: for hethat cometh to God must believe that he is,and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.OR ,
Gal 3:22 - But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Who does Gal: 3:22 say receives faith of Jesus Christ ? It is given to those that believe.
By the way, your "interpretation" of Gal. 3:22 is complete nonsense. For one thing, faith and belief are synonyms, for another, it is not talking about receiving faith. Here is a more modern translation, to help you understand.
Gal. 3:21-25 (WEB)
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could make alive, most certainly righteousness would have been of the law.
22 But the Scriptures imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, confined for the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Your translation as well as mine proves YOU are wrong. Thanks Galatians 3:22 But the Scriptures imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
David1701
Well-known member
What?
The promise of salvation is given to those who believe. That is something that ALL Christians believe, so I agree with it fully and it certainly does not "prove me wrong"!
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
That verse alone disproves election if kept n context. No where does scripture say belief is based on God gifting faith to be saved no where.
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David1701
Well-known member
Phil. 1:29 (MKJV) For to you it is given on behalf of Christ not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
Rom. 12:3 (ESV) For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
2 Pet. 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have been allotted the same kind of precious faith with us, in the righteousness of our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ:
As for "disproving" election: you cannot disprove something that God has declared to be true, many times, in his word.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Context is important Phil1:29 is written to those who have already believed and are in Christ.
David1701
Well-known member
I know to whom these verses were written, thanks!Context is important Phil1:29 is written to those who have already believed and are in Christ.Phl 1:1 - Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are atPhilippi, with the bishops and deacons. Sam for Romans 12:3 written to those in Christ.Rom 12:1 - I beseech you therefore,brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a livingsacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,which is your reasonable service. 2: Peter 1:1 again written to those who have already believed in Jesus.2Pe 1:1 - Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faithwith us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: I Agree God increases our faith as scripture says to those who have believed and placed their faith in Jesus. Every scripture you posted was written to those who are already saved. Context is important.
Phil. 1:29 (Darby) because to you has been given, as regards Christ, not only the believing on him but the suffering for him also,
The Greek, translated "...to you has been given..." here, is tricky to translate accurately into English, because it uses a construction that English does not have. It is aorist passive indicative. Aorist is something that happens at a point in time (usually in the past); passive is something that happens to you (not something you do); and indicative is simply a statement of fact.
What the above means, is that our current, ongoing believing in Jesus Christ was given to us, in a moment of time.
Rom. 12:3 (EMTV) For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself too highly, beyond what you should think, but to think soberly, as God has imparted to each one a measure of faith.
The Greek of Rom. 12:3 also has an aorist active indicative construction, at "...has imparted...", which, as we saw above, means that God gave to each one of us who are now Christians, in a moment of time, a measure of faith.
2 Pet. 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have been allotted the same kind of precious faith with us, in the righteousness of our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ:
The Greek of 2 Pet. 1:1 has a Greek word that is often translated "obtained"; however, it means "to obtain by lot". In other words, we have obtained faith in Jesus Christ, by lot. It is as if God had cast lots and given faith in Jesus Christ to those for whom the lot was favourable.