1 John 5:7-8 Johannine Comma - Clement of Alexandria, Eclogae Propheticae 13.1

Steven Avery said:
Thank you for de facto acknowledging that Tertullian and Cyprian (in his two spots) are a pair in the usage of the heavenly witnesses verse. You can add Ps-Cyprian (Hundredfold Martyrs) as well.
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Says nothing about bearing witness in heaven.

Steven Avery said:
And the Old Latin manuscripts, from the 2nd century line.
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Such as?

Steven Avery said:
You are taking an impossible position, first you try to create the heavenly witnsses verse in the late 4th century, then the 3rd before Nicaea,
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I didn't say Tertullian created the heavenly witnesses verse. I suggested he created the philosophical basis for its existence, which muddle headed people like Cyprian then used to create spurious quasi-biblical doctrines, which were independently augmented by later Councils, which doubtless spurred on others to interpose the heavenly witnesses verse into the biblical text (although the possibility that it was due to genuine accident, such as confusion between the text and the margin, cannot be discounted).
Steven Avery said:
and you have no sensible method for its creation. You just say whatever is convenient for the moment.
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cjab said:
It was you who conceded the evidence for the Comma isn't earlier than AD360.
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Nonsense. Quote me.

There is lots of earlier evidences, including Cyprian, Tertullian and Hundrefold Martyrs, and the Old Latin textline, you are talking about only the extant full verse quotes.
 
Steven Avery said:
Nonsense. Quote me.
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"This is proven by Facundus. We know that the Latin text had the heavenly witnesses over a wide geography from c. AD 360 until Facundus, with an emphasis on the Council of Carthage. We have over 15 direct quotes with the full verse."
Steven Avery said:
There is lots of earlier evidences, including Cyprian, Tertullian and Hundrefold Martyrs, and the Old Latin textline, you are talking about only the extant full verse quotes.
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I'm past arguing. You're blinded by your fanaticism.
 
cjab said:
"This is proven by Facundus. We know that the Latin text had the heavenly witnesses over a wide geography from c. AD 360 until Facundus, with an emphasis on the Council of Carthage. We have over 15 direct quotes with the full verse."

I'm past arguing. You're blinded by your fanaticism.
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He somehow thinks Facunudus was inaccurate in his quotation of Cyprian - specifically the book title of Cyprians De Unitate, and therefore that discounts him as a reliable source of historical information.

He picked this up, not from his own research into the manuscripts of Facunudus, but from the old English Advocates of the Comma.

He, nor they, checked the manuscripts to verify their claim. ;) They should have. ;) And so should he.;)
 
Cyprian's speaks of "these heavenly symbols" in De Unitate 6.5-6 in direct reference "And these three are one" (the "this unity" just spoken of) in the next sentence.

Facunudus specifically says Cyprian was making a symbolic eisegesis from "and these three are one" 1 John 5:8 (Clause-D, KJV-numbering) and proceeds to explain his own eisegesis of that verse in detail, which all who are interested in the Comma should examine closely.

Fulgentius ties Cyprian's eisegetical interpretation of Daniel 6:10 of the number "three" in Cyprian's other work, De Oratione 34, with Cyprian's De Unitate 6.5 reference, as being (in Latin "nam et") another example of the same kind of interpretation.
 
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Then you have Potamius of Lisbon's "from the figurative meanings that lye hidden underneath" eisegetical interpretations of "and these three are one" 1 John 5:8 (Clause-D, KJV-numbering)
 
TwoNoteableCorruptions said:
Cyprian's speaks of "these heavenly symbols" in De Unitate 6.5-6 in direct reference "And these three are one" (the "this unity" just spoken of) in the next sentence.

Facunudus specifically says Cyprian was making a symbolic eisegesis from "and these three are one" 1 John 5:8 (Clause-D, KJV-numbering) and proceeds to explain his own eisegesis of that verse in detail, which all who are interested in the Comma should examine closely.

Fulgentius ties Cyprian's eisegetical interpretation of Daniel 6:10 of the number "three" in Cyprian's other work, De Oratione 34, with Cyprian's De Unitate 6.5 reference, as being (in Latin "nam et") another example of the same kind of interpretation.
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None of this has the least attect on Cyprian’s verse usage, and the Fulgentius confirmation.
 
TwoNoteableCorruptions said:
He also assumes the Hundredfold Martyrs is genuine. Is it authentic?
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So far, I have not seen that any writer has questioned its authenticity.

Hundredfold Martyrs is a wonderful textual corroboration of the Ante-Nicene Old Latin text having the heevenly witnesses verse, since scholars generally see it as 3rd century.

It is important enough to get its own thread.
The reference has flown under the radar, partly because the first publication was 1914.
 
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