God did not create time

[Simpletruther]

No.
synonyms:
possible · likely · prospective · future · probable

potential (adj.)​

late 14c., "possible" (as opposed to actual),

Do possibilities exist?

 

[Simpletruther]

I do not see that taught in scripture.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.

Notice time is implied before the world began.

Time seems to be merely a conceptual reference point for events. One event happens after another.

Time has always existed because it's not a think but an idea. God in trinity was continually loving and glorifying one another from eternity past. Events were happening in eternity past.

Notice I said past. We can't even imagine an action without conceiving of a before and after.


It fits scripture well enough. And it fits the evidence of what science says as well as another view.
Most think of Einstein's space-time model as evidence of some tangible "thing". But he himself said it was merely conceptual term and that time was an illusion.

@His clay

 

[Sketo]

God did not create time​

I believe when people speak of “time” they are normally referring to the moment by moment timeline of creation. I’ve always found it helpful to make a distinction between the Transcendent Level of Eternity and the Storyline Level “timeline of creation” so that there is no confusion or conflation of the two.

Like when you are referencing a particular part in a book you wouldn’t typically include the Authors age in your reference. You wouldn’t say something like “ When the Author reached 47 years 2 months 3 hours and 22 minutes he wrote (such and such)”… no you would simply say something like “on page number 25 in paragraph 2 the character did (such and such) because (insert Storyline Level reasons)”. In this way your reference is from the beginning of the timeline of the book, not the timeline of the Transcendent Author of the book.

So it can be said God did create the “timeline of creation” because now there is a distinction with a difference.

…

 

[guest1]

True. I certainly wouldn't claim the OP is a slam dunk. But it does seem to fit scripture and logic IMO better than other views.

What we can imagine is not the end all be all. But it certainly factors onto trying to comprehend spiritual truth.

Colossians 2:8

Time is measurable . Can you measure eternity prior to creation when only God existed ?

next

 

[guest1]

Because time assumes the existence of the past and future which is a contradiction. There is no assumption of the past or the future in eternity. Eternity is not a very long time. Eternity makes all things new again. The new creation does not age or grow old. Eternity obliterates the notion of time altogether.

By definition, the past and future do not exist. There is only the Eternal present, and those who step into eternity do so "in the twinkling of an eye."

One can only think about time, and these ideas are easily proven false. We have time pieces which break up time into segments which are then broken up further into increasingly more minute segments.

Investment funds place their offices as close to a stock exchange as possible to take advantage of the millisecond advantage they have over their competition. These segments of time can be divided indefinitely until time must inevitably come to a complete stop.

So you see, it isn't just that time doesn't exist in eternity. It quite simply doesn't exist at all. Just like one's personal identity or their imaginary gods, it is nothing more than an abstract construction of the mind.

Amen

 

[Sketo]

Colossians 2:8

Time is measurable.

Don’t you mean the “timeline of creation” is measurable?

Can you measure eternity prior to creation when only God existed ?

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This is a perfect example of why a distinction with a difference is helpful.

“…prior to (the timeline of) creation when…”

This is why I said:

I believe when people speak of “time” they are normally referring to the moment by moment timeline of creation. I’ve always found it helpful to make a distinction between the Transcendent Level of Eternity and the Storyline Level “timeline of creation” so that there is no confusion or conflation of the two.

Like when you are referencing a particular part in a book you wouldn’t typically include the Authors age in your reference. You wouldn’t say something like “ When the Author reached 47 years 2 months 3 hours and 22 minutes he wrote (such and such)”… no you would simply say something like “on page number 25 in paragraph 2 the character did (such and such) because (insert Storyline Level reasons)”. In this way your reference is from the beginning of the timeline of the book, not the timeline of the Transcendent Author of the book.

So it can be said God did create the “timeline of creation” because now there is a distinction with a difference.

…

 

[Sketo]

FYI I no longer respond to those on the ignore list. I’m over the ad homs.

What “ad hom” are you referring to?

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[Simpletruther]

Colossians 2:8

Time is measurable . Can you measure eternity prior to creation when only God existed ?

next

I am sure God can. He was there.

Notice my past tense usage ?

 

[Simpletruther]

I believe when people speak of “time” they are normally referring to the moment by moment timeline of creation. I’ve always found it helpful to make a distinction between the Transcendent Level of Eternity and the Storyline Level “timeline of creation” so that there is no confusion or conflation of the two.

Like when you are referencing a particular part in a book you wouldn’t typically include the Authors age in your reference. You wouldn’t say something like “ When the Author reached 47 years 2 months 3 hours and 22 minutes he wrote (such and such)”… no you would simply say something like “on page number 25 in paragraph 2 the character did (such and such) because (insert Storyline Level reasons)”. In this way your reference is from the beginning of the timeline of the book, not the timeline of the Transcendent Author of the book.

So it can be said God did create the “timeline of creation” because now there is a distinction with a difference.

…

Sure. But that does not mean time is some tangible thing. The timeline of creation would be the sequence of events of creation.
Just like sequences of events before creation.

This whole unbiblical idea opens the door for the arminian to think they have some valid point with "God is outside of time".

If God knows the end from the beginning, as He states, then He is in the beginning, not outside of it. And the beginning is not some "thing" that contains God. It's just a reference point t for the flow of events.

 

[guest1]

I am sure God can. He was there.

Notice my past tense usage ?

your past tense not Gods eternal present ( timelessness )

next

 

[Simpletruther]

I believe when people speak of “time” they are normally referring to the moment by moment timeline of creation. I’ve always found it helpful to make a distinction between the Transcendent Level of Eternity and the Storyline Level “timeline of creation” so that there is no confusion or conflation of the two.

Like when you are referencing a particular part in a book you wouldn’t typically include the Authors age in your reference. You wouldn’t say something like “ When the Author reached 47 years 2 months 3 hours and 22 minutes he wrote (such and such)”… no you would simply say something like “on page number 25 in paragraph 2 the character did (such and such) because (insert Storyline Level reasons)”. In this way your reference is from the beginning of the timeline of the book, not the timeline of the Transcendent Author of the book.

So it can be said God did create the “timeline of creation” because now there is a distinction with a difference.

…

I want to add that, scripture says God knew the end from the beginning. Also that He determines the end from the beginning. Not that He created the end from the beginning.

Scripture never remotely hints that the end has happened already from God's perspective.

The scripture always references God Taking part in the flow of events, never "above the flow".

Yes He wrote history like a story, but He is letting the story unfold in reality as He watches, and sustains that reality. He is not above reality, which is nonsensical.

He is part of reality(all that is), and He sustains that reality (as the self sustaining creator).

 

[Simpletruther]

your past tense not Gods eternal present ( timelessness )

next

Scripture please.

God Himself declares He had a past.

 

[Sketo]

Sure. But that does not mean time is some tangible thing. The timeline of creation would be the sequence of events of creation.
Just like sequences of events before creation.

This whole unbiblical idea opens the door for the arminian to think they have some valid point with "God is outside of time".

That’s why it makes sense to make the distinction. Is God confined within the moment by moment “timeline of creation” or does God Transcend the “timeline of creation”?

This is a valid point for anyone to make, but where the Arminian takes it to far is assuming this “timeline of creation” is necessary in order for God to know things.

If God knows the end from the beginning, as He states, then He is in the beginning, not outside of it.

Scripture does not teach God is in the beginning for this would place God as created with a beginning. No it is more consistently understood as God is present in the beginning of the “timeline of creation”.

Also scripture states:
Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being”

All these are consistent with the understanding that God is not in his creation but that creation was created “in him”.

And the beginning is not some "thing" that contains God.

But “the beginning” is referring to a “thing” that began “in him”.

Therefore God is outside of creation but no part of creation is outside of God.

It's just a reference point for the flow of events.

“The beginning” is just a reference point in the “timeline of creation” that does not include the Transcendent God. God does not have a beginning to reference.

…

 

[guest1]

Scripture please.

God Himself declares He had a past.

In relation to what ?

Quote God for us !

 

[Sketo]

Yes He wrote history like a story, but He is letting the story unfold in reality as He watches, and sustains that reality. He is not above reality, which is nonsensical.

He is part of reality(all that is), and He sustains that reality (as the self sustaining creator).

I would say that the timeline of creation is a part of God’s reality. It is not a reality that exists apart from God that god just happens to “observe”.

watching/observing is a means of learning information. God knows without the necessity of watching or observing. His knowledge is Grounded in things that existed before the “beginning of the timeline of creation”.

…

 

[Simpletruther]

That’s why it makes sense to make the distinction. Is God confined within the moment by moment “timeline of creation” or does God Transcend the “timeline of creation”?

This is a valid point for anyone to make, but where the Arminian takes it to far is assuming this “timeline of creation” is necessary in order for God to know things.



Scripture does not teach God is in the beginning for this would place God as created with a beginning. No it is more consistently understood as God is present in the beginning of the “timeline of creation”.

Also scripture states:
Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being”

All these are consistent with the understanding that God is not in his creation but that creation was created “in him”.



But “the beginning” is referring to a “thing” that began “in him”.

Therefore God is outside of creation but no part of creation is outside of God.



“The beginning” is just a reference point in the “timeline of creation” that does not include the Transcendent God. God does not have a beginning to reference.

…

Can you define "timeline if creation" so we are not talking past each other?

 

[Fred]

Time is a measurement of change.

Is the above true?

 

[Slyzr]

There's lots of things we can't imagine.

Why make God subject and bound to his own creation?

God is infinitely transcendent above all created things.

Jesus did not teach that.

 

[Reformedguy]

What “ad hom” are you referring to?

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Anyone with whom he disagrees.

 

[Simpletruther]

I would say that the timeline of creation is a part of God’s reality. It is not a reality that exists apart from God that god just happens to “observe”.

I agree. It seems reasonable though to assume an eternal timeline, and that the creation timeline is just a part of that timeline. With the caveat that this is not a tangible thing, only a concept depicting sequence of events.
God isn't "bound by time" if this is true because time isnt a thing. Time is just a way to reference flow of events.

watching/observing is a means of learning information. God knows without the necessity of watching or observing. His knowledge is Grounded in things that existed before the “beginning of the timeline of creation”.

…

God can Watch and observe without learning. Just as a producer watches the film He himself made.