Scripture as the Definitive Guide
- Thread starter RayneBeau
- Start date
1Thess521
Well-known member
Scripture teaches God Himself is bound by His own word..
Tell us: By what else can God by bound?
Psalm 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psalm1:38 I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your grace and truth; for you have made your word greater than the whole of your reputation.
Hebrews 6:17 God also bound Himself with an oath
Isaiah 45
"I, the Lord, speak the truth;
I declare what is right.
'''
By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:"
-----------------------
God is not bound by the words of the Catholic Church:
"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that EVERY human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff"
Or do you believe God is bound by that "infallibly" declared proclamation on faith and morals by the Catholic Church??
and please directly answer the question
...
1Thess521
Well-known member
Then why do you insist that the written word of God are less authoritative than the spoken word of God
No they don't, if you know scriptures and figurative use of language. You believe false teachings and that is why you cannot save that conundrum. No surprise at all.
Because they seem to be under the allusion that God's written word lies, that it contains errors, that His written word is not inspired by God and that God changes His mind.
But it is amazing how RCs like to give that impression of non RCs. Then think they are not breaking any of the commandments and that is somehow loving others.
Jesus is the author of Hebrews. The bible is the word of GOD. All of it.
/
Jesus said something and Hebrews said something. I am believing Jesus and will request clarification from him after I pass out of this world. There really is not any other way to solve this particular conundrum.
==================================end quote
.
Buzz asks;
I think I missed that part
"Jesus said something and Hebrews said something."
maybe you can point that out to me
===========================================
.
Buzz comments;
I know there is controversy over who wrote the book, Hebrews
Paul, Priscilla, and a couple more;
-
then there is Timothy, which set at the Feet of Christ
==============================================
.
Proverbs 6:16
These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies,
#7 = an abomination
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
.
And the bramble said unto the trees,
If in truth ye anoint me king over you,
then come and put your trust in my shadow:
and if not, let fire come out of the bramble,
and devour the cedars of Lebanon.
======================================
.
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple:
and his disciples came to him
for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
"See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you,
There shall not be left here one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down."
Hebrews 9:8
The Holy Ghost this signifying,
that the way into the holiest of all
was not yet made manifest,
while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
.
which represented everything of the "Old Covenant"
as long as that building stood, and all it represented
it had to be completely torn down, every last "Stone"
.so Hebrews was written after 70AD
that leaves out Paul, --- all thats left are
John and Timothy that can testify of the words of Christ
==============================
.
---the Old Covenant--
Bondage too --- Tutors and Governors
Now that which (is) decayeth and waxeth old
is ready to vanish away.
--------But-------
In that he saith,
A new covenant, he hath made the first old.
Now that which (is) decayeth and waxeth old
is ready to vanish away.
----the new----
For this is the covenant that I will make
with the house of Israel after those days,
saith the Lord;
I will put my laws into their mind,
and write them in their hearts:
and I will be to them a God,
and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour,
and every man his brother,
saying,
Know the Lord:
for all shall know me,
from the least to the greatest.
.
----------POSTERS-------
know ye not
and if that be so; - no more a servant,
then why on earth would you want to
stick your neck back into that Yoke of Bondage of to
Agar = and is in bondage with her children.
.
Howbeit then,
when ye knew not God,
ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God,
or rather are known of God,
how (Why; Oh Why) turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,
whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?.
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received
the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
.
While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept,
and none of them is lost,
but the son of perdition;
that the scripture might be fulfilled..
-------but------
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition;
but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Do you not know
" the son of the bondwoman
shall not be
heir with the son of the freewoman."
.
Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits,
sent forth to minister for them
who shall be heirs of salvation?
..
Only Timothy could have known these things
and who "the son of perdition;" was
Watchdog says;
Jesus said something and Hebrews said something. I am believing Jesus and will request clarification from him after I pass out of this world. There really is not any other way to solve this particular conundrum.
==================================end quote
.
Buzz asks;
I think I missed that part
"Jesus said something and Hebrews said something."
maybe you can point that out to me
===========================================
.
----Eber = the 1st Hebrew
Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons:
the name of one was Peleg;
for in his days was the earth divided;
and his brother's name was Joktan.
.Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons:
the name of one was Peleg;
for in his days was the earth divided;
and his brother's name was Joktan.
Buzz comments;
I know there is controversy over who wrote the book, Hebrews
Paul, Priscilla, and a couple more;
-
judges ch.9
And all the men of Shechem gathered together,
and all the house of Millo,
and went, and made Abimelech king,
by the plain of the pillar that was in Shechem.
.And all the men of Shechem gathered together,
and all the house of Millo,
and went, and made Abimelech king,
by the plain of the pillar that was in Shechem.
then there is Timothy, which set at the Feet of Christ
==============================================
.
Proverbs 6:16
These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies,
#7 = an abomination
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
.
Paul says;
1Tim.5:24
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;
and some men they follow after.
Likewise also the good works of some
are manifest beforehand;
and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
.
1Cor.11:18
I hear that there be divisions among you;
and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you,
------ an abomination = he that soweth discord among brethren.
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;-------
that they which are approved
may be made manifest among you.
1Cor.1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren,
by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing,
and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together
in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you,
my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe,
that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith,
I am of Paul; and I of Apollos;
and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided?
was Paul crucified for you?
or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
.
.1Tim.5:24
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;
and some men they follow after.
Likewise also the good works of some
are manifest beforehand;
and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
.
1Cor.11:18
I hear that there be divisions among you;
and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you,
------ an abomination = he that soweth discord among brethren.
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;-------
that they which are approved
may be made manifest among you.
1Cor.1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren,
by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing,
and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together
in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you,
my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe,
that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith,
I am of Paul; and I of Apollos;
and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided?
was Paul crucified for you?
or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
.
And the bramble said unto the trees,
If in truth ye anoint me king over you,
then come and put your trust in my shadow:
and if not, let fire come out of the bramble,
and devour the cedars of Lebanon.
======================================
.
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple:
and his disciples came to him
for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
"See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you,
There shall not be left here one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down."
Hebrews 9:8
The Holy Ghost this signifying,
that the way into the holiest of all
was not yet made manifest,
while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
.
which represented everything of the "Old Covenant"
as long as that building stood, and all it represented
it had to be completely torn down, every last "Stone"
.so Hebrews was written after 70AD
that leaves out Paul, --- all thats left are
John and Timothy that can testify of the words of Christ
==============================
.
---the Old Covenant--
Bondage too --- Tutors and Governors
as Paul says
Gal.4:24
Which things are an allegory:
for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai,
which gendereth to bondage,
which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,
and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty
wherewith Christ hath made us free,
and be not entangled again with
the yoke of bondage.
.Gal.4:24
Which things are an allegory:
for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai,
which gendereth to bondage,
which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,
and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty
wherewith Christ hath made us free,
and be not entangled again with
the yoke of bondage.
Now that which (is) decayeth and waxeth old
is ready to vanish away.
--------But-------
In that he saith,
A new covenant, he hath made the first old.
Now that which (is) decayeth and waxeth old
is ready to vanish away.
----the new----
For this is the covenant that I will make
with the house of Israel after those days,
saith the Lord;
I will put my laws into their mind,
and write them in their hearts:
and I will be to them a God,
and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour,
and every man his brother,
saying,
Know the Lord:
for all shall know me,
from the least to the greatest.
.
----------POSTERS-------
know ye not
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child,
differeth nothing from a servant,
though he be lord of all;
But is under tutors and governors
until the time appointed of the father.
.......
And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts,
crying,
Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant,
but a son; and if a son,
then an heir of God through Christ.
differeth nothing from a servant,
though he be lord of all;
But is under tutors and governors
until the time appointed of the father.
.......
And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts,
crying,
Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant,
but a son; and if a son,
then an heir of God through Christ.
and if that be so; - no more a servant,
then why on earth would you want to
stick your neck back into that Yoke of Bondage of to
Agar = and is in bondage with her children.
.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God,
ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God,
or rather are known of God,
how (Why; Oh Why) turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,
whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received
the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
.
While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept,
and none of them is lost,
but the son of perdition;
that the scripture might be fulfilled..
-------but------
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition;
but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Do you not know
" the son of the bondwoman
shall not be
heir with the son of the freewoman."
.
Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits,
sent forth to minister for them
who shall be heirs of salvation?
..
Only Timothy could have known these things
and who "the son of perdition;" was
Proverbs 6:16
These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies,
#7 = an abomination
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
.
Paul says;
1Tim.5:24
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;
and some men they follow after.
---Good --vs>-- Bad
Likewise also the good works of some
are manifest beforehand;
and they that are otherwise (Bad Works) cannot be hid.
.
1Cor.11:18
I hear that there be divisions among you;
and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you,
------ an abomination = he that soweth discord among brethren.
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;-------
that they which are approved
may be made manifest among you.
1Cor.1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren,
by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing,
and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together
in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you,
my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe,
that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith,
I am of Paul; and I of Apollos;
and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided?
was Paul crucified for you?
or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
==================================
#7 = an abomination
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith,
I am of Paul; and I of Apollos;
and I of Cephas; and I of Christ..
there are contentions among you.
and today; 1900 years and they are still saying
Peter, Peter, Peter, The Rock, the Rock, Peter; Peter
Keys too Peter; Peter has the Keys,
---------------------<vs>------------------
I will publish the name of the Lord:
ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment:
a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Christ has the Keys; not Peter nor even Paul
"his eldest servant of his house,
that ruled over all that he had, "
"he that is holy, he that is true,
he that hath the key of David,
he that openeth, and no man shutteth;
and shutteth, and no man openeth;"
These six things doth the Lord hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies,
#7 = an abomination
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
.
Paul says;
1Tim.5:24
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;
and some men they follow after.
---Good --vs>-- Bad
Likewise also the good works of some
are manifest beforehand;
and they that are otherwise (Bad Works) cannot be hid.
.
1Cor.11:18
I hear that there be divisions among you;
and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you,
------ an abomination = he that soweth discord among brethren.
Some men's sins are open beforehand,
going before to judgment;-------
that they which are approved
may be made manifest among you.
1Cor.1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren,
by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing,
and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together
in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you,
my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe,
that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith,
I am of Paul; and I of Apollos;
and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided?
was Paul crucified for you?
or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
==================================
#7 = an abomination
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith,
I am of Paul; and I of Apollos;
and I of Cephas; and I of Christ..
there are contentions among you.
and today; 1900 years and they are still saying
Peter, Peter, Peter, The Rock, the Rock, Peter; Peter
Keys too Peter; Peter has the Keys,
---------------------<vs>------------------
I will publish the name of the Lord:
ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment:
a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Christ has the Keys; not Peter nor even Paul
"his eldest servant of his house,
that ruled over all that he had, "
"he that is holy, he that is true,
he that hath the key of David,
he that openeth, and no man shutteth;
and shutteth, and no man openeth;"
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1Thess521
Well-known member
It is impossible for Scripture to disagree with God.
It is impossible for God to disagree with Scripture.
If you think otherwise; please explain how God's words can disagree with God's words
1Thess521
Well-known member
If I lowered my view of what Scripture is (its characteristics and attributes), I would probably be Catholic.
I would have the extra writings in the Canon,
I would view the proclamations of the Catholic Church as being on the same level as writings breathed out by God.
I would have the Theopneustos writings be subordinate to the Catholic Church.
I would accept that all required beliefs for salvation are NOT found in Scripture, and the CC knows what requirements are missing.
I would proclaim that until Christ returns, the Catholic Church is the highest authority on earth.
I will accept that the Catholic Church decides what is true about Scripture, vs. Scripture declaring what is true about the Church
I would be Sola Ecclesia.
But fortunately, that is not how I view Scripture.
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And all I'm saying if two people are teaching and one of them is Jesus, I'm believing Jesus. I'm the one believing God, God Incarnate himself, Jesus Christ.
Not so. Protestants took out those books of the Canon.
The Church can also be looked at as "God Breathed" as much as any writings.
We believe we must accept Jesus as the Savior, and scripture also tells us that. We believe scripture as well, our entire worship and faith is based on it.
Yes, it is the highest religious authority on this earth. The CC was instituted by God himself while he was here.
Someone has to interpret the scriptures, and that would be the Holy Catholic Church. We have it right, you all are still flailing. In that action you would be correct.
Nope, your apostate church added them.
We are the church....it isn't a religious institution.
Nope....Scripture is.
No, it most certainly wasn't.
Scripture says to study to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the word of Truth.....
YOU are to rightly divide the word, not depend on an apostate religious organization to do it for you.
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
No, you don't....your apostate church preaches another gospel.
I'm not. I am in Christ, born again by His Spirit, saved and sealed.
Nondenom40
Well-known member
You can't take out what was never in. Jerome and other church fathers called them apocryphal and 'not in the canon.'
Except that it never is called that. You don't have the authority to willy nilly call something God breathed when it clearly isn't. There was a catholic here on the old boards that said Lord of the Rings was inspired. I'd be curious what else you think is inspired or God Breathed.
How, when your doctrines and dogmas are nowhere found in the bible? Your faith is based on man made teachings, not scripture.
Right, we all do. In light of what scripture says. Our interpretation has to compliment the bible not disagree with it. Which is precisely what your church does. Paul told Timothy to study to show himself approved...Not let the pope decide what to believe.
Thats hilarious. A bloodless propitiatory sacrifice. You atone for your own sin. God is a wafer. Bread is worshiped. Mary bosses God around..Ya you got it right...smh
Nondenom40
Well-known member
You beat me.
1Thess521
Well-known member
They should not have been in there: they were not God-breathed
Then why are not the "God Breathed" writings from the Catholic Church in the Canon
Is belief in the Immaculate Conception of Mary a REQUIREMENT for salvation? verse please, and while your at it, please explain why the EO Church can't find that anywhere in any Scriptures
Nope, Scripture is the highest authority on earth:
Scripture has the same authority as God speaking
God is more authoritative than the Church
Therefore Scripture is more authoritative than any Church
Interpretation is not the same as authority.
Do you think the interpreters of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount have more authority than Jesus's words?
Every one of your points have been refute.
And my point stands: Catholics have a lower view of Scripture than the Reformers
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1Thess521
Well-known member
That's the point:
There is no difference in authority between Jesus's words and any God-breathed writing.
You are proving my other poin; that Catholics diminish the authority of Scripture
Then let us include the one church he started as well.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
It isn't lowering one's views... it is the assurance that Christ gave us a Church, protected by the Holy Spirit.