Your position on the atonement asserts Jesus makes everyone savable, if they will only believe; therefore, Jesus saves no one; salvation is the purview of the creature.
Limited atonement
- Thread starter Reformedguy
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That's not how Jesus views unlimited atonement and libertarian choice. Jesus sees it as we accept it and He saves us. But it is God's idea, not ours.
Your position on the atonement asserts Jesus makes everyone savable, if they will only believe; therefore, Jesus saves no one; salvation is the purview of the creature.
SovereignGrace
Well-known member
Then why are ppl punished for their sins when they’re paid for? That’d be like being found guilty in court and told to either pay the fine or get six months in jail. They pay the fine, the court accepts the payment and is satisfied with that payment, then turning right around and giving them six months in jail any ways. You have Christ paying for their sins and them, too. You’re making Christ an unjust [see unrighteous] judge.
In y’all’s view, the cross saved nary a soul, just made them savable. That dog won’t hunt.
And Christ met all those conditions necessary for saving His sheep.
It is God's prerogative do it that way.
Synergistically saving us was God's idea, not ours. Jesus purchased the tickets for salvation, for the sheep as well as the goats. The sheep libertarianly accept the tickets. The goats libertarianly deny them.
God didn't do it that way.
He gave the world a Savior who really saves (Mt 1:21; cf Acts 20:28). He did not give the world a Savior who merely makes men savable, if only they will believe as your position asserts.
And there it is -- the creature is left to save himself which he is powerless to do (Jn 6:44, 65).
That doesn't prove God didn't make men savable. Fireman come to save all but it doesn't mean he saves those who don't want to be saved.
None of that says the sheep aren't libertarian.
God doesn't make men savable, He really, truly, honestly saves them. ?
And nowhere does scripture say they are. ?
God saved me. So yes. And I am libertarian.
SovereignGrace
Well-known member
Wrong. Jesus said He would lay His life for for the sheep not goats. You are making things up as you go.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Correct, Biblical:
"...just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep." John 10:15
Arminians have always believed this so it is nothing new.
All ie sheep and goats are potentially libertarianly sheep and Christ died for them all to root out who the sheep are which is what He wanted.
That is the conclusion that reconciles with scriptures that imply Christ died for all unlimitedly.