The Kingdom of God

[Oldsaint24]

If the only way and place that the truth and reality of God can be known to exist and occur is in and by His and Our Believing Minds, then God's Kingdom must exist in His and His children's Believing Minds.

But if you disagree, then please name at least one other way or place that the truth and reality of God can be known to exist and occur that isn't a believing mind. So, no scoffing in or about God's Kingdom please.

Does God's truth and reality exist whether we think about it or don't think about it? Of course it does. Therefore God's truth and reality does and can exist apart from your mind.
Actually, I am not seeing the connection between what we think and the title of the OP.
The kingdom of God is here on earth right now whether we think about it or don't think about it. It is a spiritual kingdom, currently. Spiritual because the Holy Spirit has come down to indwell God's children (obedient ones that is). If the child of God has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, he/she is in the kingdom. If the child of God does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit they are not in the kingdom of God, here and now.
And therein lies (pun intended) the problem with many of God's children. They think they have the indwelling, and are in the kingdom of God, but don't have the indwelling and are not in the kingdom of God. A real problem with many of God's deceived children......and they don't even know it.

 

[Tercon]

Does God's truth and reality exist whether we think about it or don't think about it? Of course it does.

You seem to be suggesting that you can know about the existence and occurrence of God's Kingdom without a believing Mind informing you of His existence, is this what you are suggesting? Please clarify.

Therefore God's truth and reality does and can exist apart from your mind.

How do you know that something can exist or occur without your believing mind making it known to you? When of course belief is necessary and must occur in reality before the truth and reality is known to you. Maybe you can clarify?

Actually, I am not seeing the connection between what we think and the title of the OP.

Yes I can tell that you don't see the connection by your statements. But that can be cleared up for you.

The kingdom of God is here on earth right now whether we think about it or don't think about it.

Yes it is. And it has been coming for a long time. But can you know or participate in God's Kingdom without believing it?

It is a spiritual kingdom, currently.

Just because something is spiritual doesn't mean that it can't be known and experienced while we are still in the physical realm. You just need to know how the spirit realm is experienced and seen differently than the physical realm, because both the spiritual and physical realm can be known on Earth. A matter of fact as believers we can literally watch His Kingdom come to fruition. And as believers we can separate the carnal and spiritual world, then experience His glory and move forward in His glory; from glory to glory. The more we believe; the more He shows us, and His Kingdom expands from His glory to His glory we see it occur, ever expanding and coming to fruition in us as well.

Spiritual because the Holy Spirit has come down to indwell God's children (obedient ones that is).
If the child of God has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, he/she is in the kingdom.

Agreed. One must be a believer and believe His Spirit and what He is showing us.

If the child of God does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit they are not in the kingdom of God, here and now.

That's right, as if someone doesn't believe what the Spirit of truth is showing them; then they cannot know and experience the Kingdom of God.

And therein lies (pun intended) the problem with many of God's children. They think they have the indwelling, and are in the kingdom of God, but don't have the indwelling and are not in the kingdom of God. A real problem with many of God's deceived children......and they don't even know it.

Agreed. And those who don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit; they don't know what the Spirit of truth reveals in the reality of His Kingdom. It isn't that His Kingdom isn't knowable, rather it is that most people won't admit that they don't know how His Kingdom is known and experienced. And He can't show even someone who calls themselves a Christian, until they are willing believe the Spirit of truth about how He and His Kingdom are known.

 

[Oldsaint24]

You seem to be suggesting that you can know about the existence and occurrence of God's Kingdom without a believing Mind informing you of His existence, is this what you are suggesting? Please clarify.



How do you know that something can exist or occur without your believing mind making it known to you? When of course belief is necessary and must occur in reality before the truth and reality is known to you. Maybe you can clarify?



Yes I can tell that you don't see the connection by your statements. But that can be cleared up for you.



Yes it is. And it has been coming for a long time. But can you know or participate in God's Kingdom without believing it?



Just because something is spiritual doesn't mean that it can't be known and experienced while we are still in the physical realm. You just need to know how the spirit realm is experienced and seen differently than the physical realm, because both the spiritual and physical realm can be known on Earth. A matter of fact as believers we can literally watch His Kingdom come to fruition. And as believers we can separate the carnal and spiritual world, then experience His glory and move forward in His glory; from glory to glory. The more we believe; the more He shows us, and His Kingdom expands from His glory to His glory we see it occur, ever expanding and coming to fruition in us as well.



Agreed. One must be a believer and believe His Spirit and what He is showing us.



That's right, as if someone doesn't believe what the Spirit of truth is showing them; then they cannot know and experience the Kingdom of God.



Agreed. And those who don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit; they don't know what the Spirit of truth reveals in the reality of His Kingdom. It isn't that His Kingdom isn't knowable, rather it is that most people won't admit that they don't know how His Kingdom is known and experienced. And He can't show even someone who calls themselves a Christian, until they are willing believe the Spirit of truth about how He and His Kingdom are known.

Hey, I am simply addressing your statement, ".....then, God's Kingdom must exist in His and His children's "Believing Minds" (and I don't understand why you are capitalizing "Believing Minds"). Anyway, that statement is not true and you agreed that it is not true, when I stated that the kingdom of God exists whether we think about it or don't think about it, and you affirmed that.
Here's the problem with your philosophy. I pretty much agree with all your "believing" stuff and knowing. But simply believing and knowing does not mean the child of God is IN the kingdom.
See, that is the slippery slope of your philosophy. Children of God who think the way you are expressing yourself, and maybe you yourself, reason/think , because you believe you must be in the kingdom of God. That is not necessarily true. But if one thinks/reasons it is true, then they may miss the kingdom, altogether, all the while thinking there are/were in the kingdom. See the danger?
Question.....is there a difference between "seeing" the kingdom and "entering" the kingdom?

 

[Tercon]

Hey, I am simply addressing your statement, ".....then, God's Kingdom must exist in His and His children's "Believing Minds" (and I don't understand why you are capitalizing "Believing Minds").

And I am simply addressing your post. You shouldn't be taking offense to me simply defending what I believe, as there is only one of us that is in the position to know what I am saying is true and that's me, because I am the one here who I believes it. Remember, all knowledge of the truth and reality requires belief.

Anyway, that statement is not true and you agreed that it is not true, when I stated that the kingdom of God exists whether we think about it or don't think about it, and you affirmed that.

No, I agreed that it is ONLY known to be true because we believe it and not because you disbelieve it. And because we can't know about the truth and reality without belief, then you are referring to something that is unknowable to you without a belief in reality. Or in other words; you are not denoting reality.

Here's the problem with your philosophy. I pretty much agree with all your "believing" stuff and knowing. But simply believing and knowing does not mean the child of God is IN the kingdom.

I see what you are saying. But you have to recognize also that you can't know it unless to believe it first, because it is believing IN God's truth and reality that makes His Kingdom known to us. As His Spirit works in us as believers in influencing our beliefs; this is why He is called the Spirit of truth, because He is Who leads us into God's reality = Kingdom.

See, that is the slippery slope of your philosophy. Children of God who think the way you are expressing yourself, and maybe you yourself, reason/think , because you believe you must be in the kingdom of God. That is not necessarily true.

Which part of what I said are you referring to when you said the above?
I will reserve a response to this part until you clarify what you are referencing here. It is best to quote specifically what you are referring to like I am doing here, it makes for less misunderstanding.

But if one thinks/reasons it is true, then they may miss the kingdom, altogether, all the while thinking there are/were in the kingdom. See the danger?

I am not referring to reason, as I am referring to and denoting what God said in and with the Bible; as He is quite explicit in that He is only known in and with one way.

Question.....is there a difference between "seeing" the kingdom and "entering" the kingdom?

We know and experience the truth and reality by believing it, as our physical senses are useless in giving direction and meaning to anything, but it is what we believe about what we are sensing that guides us to the truth and reality. We are belief lead and not physical senses lead. Animals are lead by their senses, but believers have the capacity of believing to guide us.

Question: have you studied logic?

 

[Oldsaint24]

And I am simply addressing your post. You shouldn't be taking offense to me simply defending what I believe,

Not taking any offense, not even sensing any hostility. Just dialoguing. Will get back when I have more time to digest tour post.

 

[Oldsaint24]

Question: have you studied logic?

Yes, I am extremely analytical and a problem solver......which is what I am trying to do with you. I am not disputing with you over believing and knowing by an individual nor the necessity of believing and knowing. I am disputing with you equating believing and knowing and the kingdom of God.
So, if an individual knows Jesus is Lord and even professes Jesus as Lord, does that mean they are in the kingdom of God? I say no.
The point I am going to make to you is even if someone knows Jesus is Lord, even professes Jesus is Lord, it does not equate to being in the kingdom of God.
Oh,and returning to the question in the previous post , which you did not answer.....
Is seeing the kingdom of God the same as entering the kingdom of God?

 

[Tercon]

Yes, I am extremely analytical and a problem solver......which is what I am trying to do with you. I am not disputing with you over believing and knowing by an individual nor the necessity of believing and knowing. I am disputing with you equating believing and knowing and the kingdom of God.

That's good and I am hoping that your mind is logical and "extremely analytical".

Yes and for good reason. As it is belief and a believing mind that God has ordained as His chosen means of making Himself known to believers.

Can you know or experience the Kingdom of God without believing what His Spirit of truth is revealing to you; when He is literally believing inside of you and making everything that is of God known to you?

So, if an individual knows Jesus is Lord and even professes Jesus as Lord, does that mean they are in the kingdom of God?
I say no.

I don't know what another person knows nor understands until we believe the same thing, then I can.

If one believes that Christ is truth incarnate, and His Spirit believes in and with the believer.

The point I am going to make to you is even if someone knows Jesus is Lord, even professes Jesus is Lord, it does not equate to being in the kingdom of God.

Okay. But you can be in the Kingdom of God if you believe as Christ believes.

Oh, and returning to the question in the previous post , which you did not answer.....
Is seeing the kingdom of God the same as entering the kingdom of God?

Your question isn't logical, as you can only know nor enter the Kingdom of God until you believe as His Spirit believes in you.