Meaning of John 6:43-44

T

The Pixie

Well-known member
Here is the verse:

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.​
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me​
draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."​

When it says "them", who is it referring to?

I was discussing specifically that passage with another poster, who said:

Furion said:
He did, you came to the cross of Christ
Click to expand...
I did ask for clarification:

Furion said:
You've been drawn to the cross of Christ.

Are you confused by this? Try to stay focused.
Click to expand...

What he is saying here is that I am one of those drawn in, as per the passage we were discussing, John 6:43-44. And by implication, anyone alive since the date of the crucifixion.

Now I have to admit that I am struggling to see how that makes sense. Was Jesus saying no one could come to him until after he died, and then everyone could, and further that he would raise everyone up?

That is certainly good news! But do other Christians agree with him? I suggested starting a threead, and he agreed, so here we are.

To be clear, the question here is to what group of people does "them" refer in the passage John 6:43-44? Is it everyone alive since the crucifixion? I am not sure of the answer, but I strongly suspect Jesus is refering to a select few. What do you think?
 
The Pixie said:
Here is the verse:

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.​
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me​
draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."​

When it says "them", who is it referring to?

I was discussing specifically that passage with another poster, who said:


I did ask for clarification:



What he is saying here is that I am one of those drawn in, as per the passage we were discussing, John 6:43-44. And by implication, anyone alive since the date of the crucifixion.

Now I have to admit that I am struggling to see how that makes sense. Was Jesus saying no one could come to him until after he died, and then everyone could, and further that he would raise everyone up?

That is certainly good news! But do other Christians agree with him? I suggested starting a threead, and he agreed, so here we are.

To be clear, the question here is to what group of people does "them" refer in the passage John 6:43-44? Is it everyone alive since the crucifixion? I am not sure of the answer, but I strongly suspect Jesus is refering to a select few. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Some translations put it this way....“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

The word used is 846 autos....
(1) self (emphatic) (2) he, she, it (used for the third person pronoun) (3) the same
Usage: he, she, it, they, them, same.
 
John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

He has obviously drawn you unto Him. Else why would you keep coming here to mock and insult Him?

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. Phil 2: 10-11.
 
The Pixie said:
Here is the verse:

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.​
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me​
draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."​

When it says "them", who is it referring to?

...

To be clear, the question here is to what group of people does "them" refer in the passage John 6:43-44? Is it everyone alive since the crucifixion? I am not sure of the answer, but I strongly suspect Jesus is refering to a select few. What do you think?
Click to expand...
No group in particular, and in any case it's 'them' singular. It's just a way of saying that someone can't come to Jesus unless the Father draws that someone.
 
Lucian said:
No group in particular, and in any case it's 'them' singular. It's just a way of saying that someone can't come to Jesus unless the Father draws that someone.
Click to expand...
Which open up th second question....what does "draws" mean?
1670. helkó

Is it a "here kitty, kitty" type of persuasion...where God entices one to become a believer or is it more of an Acts 16:19 "heiko"...19 When the girl’s owners saw that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities in the marketplace.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

He has obviously drawn you unto Him. Else why would you keep coming here to mock and insult Him?

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. Phil 2: 10-11.
Click to expand...
It becomes clearer when you are not driving around in an atheist cherry picker. You can like..learn stuff.
 
CrowCross said:
Which open up th second question....what does "draws" mean?
1670. helkó

Is it a "here kitty, kitty" type of persuasion...where God entices one to become a believer or is it more of an Acts 16:19 "heiko"...19 When the girl’s owners saw that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities in the marketplace.
Click to expand...
It’s a good question. Perhaps both?
 
stiggy wiggy said:
John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

He has obviously drawn you unto Him. Else why would you keep coming here to mock and insult Him?

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. Phil 2: 10-11.
Click to expand...
To continue...what does "all" mean? Every single person without exception? A group of people? A selection of people, a nation of people?

Mark 1:5 tells us....And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins......who were the "all"? Certainly not every person in Judea and Jerusalem.
 
CrowCross said:
To continue...what does "all" mean? Every single person without exception? A group of people? A selection of people, a nation of people?

Mark 1:5 tells us....And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins......who were the "all"? Certainly not every person in Judea and Jerusalem.
Click to expand...

I'm at work now and don't have my Greek Concordance, and I may be wrong, but I recall that there are two words translated as "all," one being ola, and one being pant. I'm thinking pant might be the stronger of the two.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
I'm at work now and don't have my Greek Concordance, and I may be wrong, but I recall that there are two words translated as "all," one being ola, and one being pant. I'm thinking pant might be the stronger of the two.
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I'll look...

In Mark 1:5 "3956. pas" is used.

John 12:32 uses the same word.

I like what you told Pixie...draws "all" men, some for and some against.
 
CrowCross said:
To continue...what does "all" mean? Every single person without exception? A group of people? A selection of people, a nation of people?

Mark 1:5 tells us....And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins......who were the "all"? Certainly not every person in Judea and Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
The text does in fact say that every 'Jersualemite' was going out to him. Presumably it's exaggeration.
 
The Pixie said:
Here is the verse:

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.​
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me​
draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."​

When it says "them", who is it referring to?

I was discussing specifically that passage with another poster, who said:


I did ask for clarification:



What he is saying here is that I am one of those drawn in, as per the passage we were discussing, John 6:43-44. And by implication, anyone alive since the date of the crucifixion.

Now I have to admit that I am struggling to see how that makes sense. Was Jesus saying no one could come to him until after he died, and then everyone could, and further that he would raise everyone up?

That is certainly good news! But do other Christians agree with him? I suggested starting a threead, and he agreed, so here we are.

To be clear, the question here is to what group of people does "them" refer in the passage John 6:43-44? Is it everyone alive since the crucifixion? I am not sure of the answer, but I strongly suspect Jesus is refering to a select few. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Actually, to correct the record, I invited you to consult the full counsel of God on the subject.

You refused to put down your cherry picker, and here we are.
 
The Pixie said:
Here is the verse:

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.​
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me​
draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."​

When it says "them", who is it referring to?

I was discussing specifically that passage with another poster, who said:


I did ask for clarification:



What he is saying here is that I am one of those drawn in, as per the passage we were discussing, John 6:43-44. And by implication, anyone alive since the date of the crucifixion.

Now I have to admit that I am struggling to see how that makes sense. Was Jesus saying no one could come to him until after he died, and then everyone could, and further that he would raise everyone up?

That is certainly good news! But do other Christians agree with him? I suggested starting a threead, and he agreed, so here we are.

To be clear, the question here is to what group of people does "them" refer in the passage John 6:43-44? Is it everyone alive since the crucifixion? I am not sure of the answer, but I strongly suspect Jesus is refering to a select few. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Except that Jesus says much more about people not entering the Kingdom and perishing. So why your thinking?
The question of pre determinism is dificult but I think what you are proposing is universal salvation which is obviously false
 
BMS said:
Except that Jesus says much more about people not entering the Kingdom and perishing. So why your thinking?
The question of pre determinism is dificult but I think what you are proposing is universal salvation which is obviously false
Click to expand...
I think he's asking if God draws everyone or only some? (let me know if I'm wrong Pix) Some of the posters above seem to think that merely hearing Jesus name in passing is counted as being drawn.
For some of us who are Atheists, the fact that we are atheists, is perhaps an indication that we aren't drawn.
 
Tiburon said:
I think he's asking if God draws everyone or only some? (let me know if I'm wrong Pix) Some of the posters above seem to think that merely hearing Jesus name in passing is counted as being drawn.
For some of us who are Atheists, the fact that we are atheists, is perhaps an indication that we aren't drawn.
Click to expand...
Does the fact that your burning passion is proclaiming your unbelief and opposition to Christ mean anything about you?

Why yes, yes it does.

Making enemies, making devotees, it's all the same big guy.

God knew my reaction to the cross.

He knew yours too.

Such is the reaction to those confronted by the Spirit.
 
Tiburon said:
I think he's asking if God draws everyone or only some? (let me know if I'm wrong Pix) Some of the posters above seem to think that merely hearing Jesus name in passing is counted as being drawn.
For some of us who are Atheists, the fact that we are atheists, is perhaps an indication that we aren't drawn.
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I see your point, one can say that, but seeing as God doesnt want anyone to perish but all come to repentance, and has made the way, one can also say He has drawn everyone.
 
Furion said:
Does the fact that your burning passion is proclaiming your unbelief and opposition to Christ mean anything about you?

Why yes, yes it does.

Making enemies, making devotees, it's all the same big guy.

God knew my reaction to the cross.

He knew yours too.

Such is the reaction to those confronted by the Spirit.
Click to expand...
So I was predestined not to believe?
 
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