Do and live.

Carbon said:
According to the Arminian and semi pelagian theories, the first good begins with man, and the Spirit of God is only a benevolent well wisher.

Though in scripture man is described as dead in sin, the real deed, begins on man’s side.
And that’s the grand evil of all these free will systems, which is that they insert a legal condition which men have to perform, and all the ends at last in the law of works, leaving men to apply themselves as best they can the benefits which the redeemer purchased.

Yes, humanity is thrown under a godly guise, upon the principle, - “do and live”
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Man is dead in sin. But scripture says there is light that lighteth every man that comes into the world. That is prevenient grace that enlightens man to a semblance of faith with which they can libertarianly seek God.

John 1:9 (KJV) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

And we by natural revelation ie prevenient grace were without excuse. We must have known better. ...

Romans 1:20 (KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

And we are commanded to believe, so we must libertarianly be able to. ...

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And God is pleased with our faith. ...

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 
Kampioen said:
Man is dead in sin. But scripture says there is light that lighteth every man that comes into the world. That is prevenient grace that enlightens man to a semblance of faith with which they can libertarianly seek God.

John 1:9 (KJV) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

And we by natural revelation ie prevenient grace were without excuse. We must have known better. ...

Romans 1:20 (KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

And we are commanded to believe, so we must libertarianly be able to. ...

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And God is pleased with our faith. ...

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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That’s to much scripture full of truth he will not understand. Maybe just use 1 verse at a time so he will not be overwhelmed. Great Bible verses .
 
Carbon said:
So, what do you think these passages mean?
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Kampioen said:
Philippians 2:12 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Yes God works the will and do in them. But Paul was asking them to obey even more in his absence, which means there is libertarianism involved in the extent of the will and do God works in them.
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Already answered. But I will repeat.

Yes God works the will and do in them. But Paul was asking them ... ... *to obey even more in his absence*, ... which means they now have the basis to libertarianly will and do more in Paul's absence.
 
Theophilus said:
Why do you always post Bible verses you don’t understand ?
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He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
John 12:40 KJV
 
Kampioen said:
Man is dead in sin. But scripture says there is light that lighteth every man that comes into the world. That is prevenient grace that enlightens man to a semblance of faith with which they can libertarianly seek God.

John 1:9 (KJV) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

And we by natural revelation ie prevenient grace were without excuse. We must have known better. ...
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Hello again kampioen.
Thanks for sharing and doing what most people around here don’t do. That is, posting scripture and giving your reasoning, I appreciate that.

Although, I do disagree with your reasonings.
I don’t believe man is born with the ability to believe unto salvation. Jesus said, (John 6:44) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
You would probably say this drawing is by prevenient grace? But in the case of the free willers, not everyone who is drawn is saved. But according to this verse, all who are drawn are raised up on the last day; God’s grace is irresistible and infallible.
Kampioen said:
Romans 1:20 (KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
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No one is released from an obligation to believe. Though God does not draw the reprobate unto salvation, but passes them over, God’s majesty still shines in His creation, and man is obligated to believe.
Kampioen said:
And we are commanded to believe, so we must libertarianly be able to. ...
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See above.
Kampioen said:
Acts 16:30-31 (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Click to expand...
Well that is how we are saved. Be belief. Scripture teaches man is born spiritually dead, he is a God hater it’s at enmity with God, no one seeks God, not even one. If that he the case? How can anyone be saved?

Roman’s 5:10,
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Titus 3:5-6
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Kampioen said:
And God is pleased with our faith. ...
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Well of course.
But keep in mind, there are a couple kinds of faith. One He is pleased with the other He is not.
Kampioen said:
Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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Amen!
 
Kampioen said:
Already answered. But I will repeat.

Yes God works the will and do in them. But Paul was asking them ... ... *to obey even more in his absence*, ... which means they now have the basis to libertarianly will and do more in Paul's absence.
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Why are you desperately seeking to prove liberation free will.
Friend, it’s just not there,

If you are saved, praise and thank God. We don’t deserve it, but by grace we are saved. Made alive while you were dead,
 
Carbon said:
Why are you desperately seeking to prove liberation free will.
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The same reason you desperately try to prove unconditional meticulous predetermination.

Friend, it’s just not there,

If you are saved, praise and thank God. We don’t deserve it, but by grace we are saved.
Click to expand...

Libertarians do praise God. We don't deserve it.

If Libertarians are saved who keep preaching libertarian then God is pleased with them.

Made alive while you were dead,
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Yes. But a person must come and hear out the gospel first and formulate his opinion while he is still dead. That is God's drawing. That is because of prevenient grace.
 
Carbon said:
According to the Arminian and semi pelagian theories, the first good begins with man, and the Spirit of God is only a benevolent well wisher.

Though in scripture man is described as dead in sin, the real deed, begins on man’s side.
And that’s the grand evil of all these free will systems, which is that they insert a legal condition which men have to perform, and all the ends at last in the law of works, leaving men to apply themselves as best they can the benefits which the redeemer purchased.

Yes, humanity is thrown under a godly guise, upon the principle, - “do and live”
Click to expand...
Live and do ?
 
Carbon said:
According to the Arminian and semi pelagian theories, the first good begins with man, and the Spirit of God is only a benevolent well wisher.

Though in scripture man is described as dead in sin, the real deed, begins on man’s side.
And that’s the grand evil of all these free will systems, which is that they insert a legal condition which men have to perform, and all the ends at last in the law of works, leaving men to apply themselves as best they can the benefits which the redeemer purchased.

Yes, humanity is thrown under a godly guise, upon the principle, - “do and live”
Click to expand...
That is false of Arminians

Arminians and provisionists both hold it begins with God
 
Carbon said:
Haha. Of course you would say that. You have to. ?

But the proof is in the pudding
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Its the truth

ARTICLE FOUR: THE GRACE OF GODWe affirm that grace is God’s generous decision to provide salvation for any
person by taking all of the initiative in providing atonement, in freely offering
the Gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit, and in uniting the believer to
Christ through the Holy Spirit by faith.
We deny that grace negates the necessity of a free response of faith or that it
cannot be resisted. We deny that the response of faith is in any way a
meritorious work that earns salvation.
Ezra 9:8; Proverbs 3:34; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 19:16-30, 23:37; Luke
10:1-12; Acts 15:11; 20:24; Romans 3:24, 27-28; 5:6, 8, 15-21; Galatians
1:6; 2:21; 5; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 3:2-9; Colossians 2:13-17;
Hebrews 4:16; 9:28; 1 John 4:19
 
fltom said:
Its the truth

ARTICLE FOUR: THE GRACE OF GODWe affirm that grace is God’s generous decision to provide salvation for any
person by taking all of the initiative in providing atonement, in freely offering
the Gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit, and in uniting the believer to
Christ through the Holy Spirit by faith.
We deny that grace negates the necessity of a free response of faith or that it
cannot be resisted. We deny that the response of faith is in any way a
meritorious work that earns salvation.
Ezra 9:8; Proverbs 3:34; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 19:16-30, 23:37; Luke
10:1-12; Acts 15:11; 20:24; Romans 3:24, 27-28; 5:6, 8, 15-21; Galatians
1:6; 2:21; 5; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 3:2-9; Colossians 2:13-17;
Hebrews 4:16; 9:28; 1 John 4:19
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing the true gospel fltom
 
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