Christianity: Friend or foe to science?

[e v e 21]

From the oversoul concept in plato, derives the concept of a daemon or guiding 'entity.' Or in later use a muse. C.S Lewis writes a great account of this in screwtape letters, that spirit guide obviously a demon of the satanic realm.

A soul is very helpless is a point in Screwtape letters, and because of the fall, much influenced by suggestions of the demon or natural mind.

The options are listening to that entity or listening to God.

For the pagan greeks, of course listening to the daemon was seen as desirable, since they belonged to the same false gods the Israelites succumb to sometimes in the OT. But for christians, no. Not a good model.

 

[e v e 21]

God does not need science...


He speaks reality into being.

 

[CrowCross]

You'll stick to Adam's ribs?

Absolutely.

I'm not going with the your uncle was a monkey "theory"

 

[Unknown Soldier]

By science I assume you mean the current local materiality (the current material reality) as can be measured on this earth by those trained to or experts of such. A feature of this current reality is that everything dies.

No. Science to me is the honest search for truth--whatever that truth might be. If the truth found is material or spiritual so be it either way.

Now consider God's reality, heaven, which is not subject to the 'rules' of the current reality, specifically its situation of mortality.

two realms.

Yes. I've read about that.

My understanding of this is that because we are trapped in the physicality of the limited 5 senses of the current reality, because of adam's actions we left eden our paradise... and now we experience pain and mortality and separation from God, in which we cannot see God and can only in our souls experience God's reality.

How do you know that your soul is right?

The problem is when science poses 'all reality' as conforming to the current one and itself as arbiter of what constitutes reality, by this attempting to diminish or hide the other reality.

I can't speak for everybody, but I only ever try to hide reality if it's "private;" If you know what I mean. ?

 

[CrowCross]

Actually, we modern humans evolved not from monkeys but from earlier hominids.

Do you still crave bananas?

 

[CrowCross]

No. Science to me is the honest search for truth

Then why do you deny the existence of recent soft Dino tissue under 65 MY's old?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Do you still crave bananas?

It appears that evolution has resulted in a hominid that does not like to be compared to other hominids. I've often wondered if apes object to being likened to human beings, but I suppose that's only the case for religious apes.

Then why do you deny the existence of recent soft Dino tissue under 65 MY's old?

Well, I don't know if that has anything to do with the honest search for truth.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

When did modern science begin? What experiments were done? Who were the first scientists?

Some people see modern science as beginning with Galileo, but like I said it is often said to have started with the Hellenistic Greeks. As I see it, science started when the first hominid who created the first sharp stick successfully tested it by driving off a dangerous animal with that stick.

 

[Theo1689]

Well, I don't know if that has anything to do with the honest search for truth.

It refutes the evolutionary timeline.
I think it's clear that you are indoctrinated in evolution, and have no desire to see anything questioning it.

 

[e v e 21]

Then why did all of his disciple flat out deny him in his trials and tribulations and not one came to be identified with him, and why did the very ones he once taught in the Jewish temple have him crucified for blaspheme if he was able to convey Gods Spirit?

Ok now perhaps you can convey very well your gods mind sense Jesus couldn't even do that! What puts you above him in intelligence?

the real miracle is that He spoke to them, and some could hear him.

 

[e v e 21]

Actually, we modern humans evolved not from monkeys but from earlier hominids.

actually man had dominion over the animals and was not one of them, whereas
the current hominid is an animal body.

Because of Adam's disobedience a corruption of (our) reality entered the picture. It was not
merely a psychological consequence but cosmological effects occurred... For one we left
our land. And, we are now mortal, in a foreign land where men sweat and toil,
and females suffer pain in childbirth.

 

[Caroljeen]

Some people see modern science as beginning with Galileo, but like I said it is often said to have started with the Hellenistic Greeks. As I see it, science started when the first hominid who created the first sharp stick successfully tested it by driving off a dangerous animal with that stick.

Did the Hellenistic Greeks conduct experiments? How did they test their hypotheses?

Taking a stick to defend yourself is something that anyone would do in self defense. I'm not sure how scientific sharpening a stick in preparation for another attack might be.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Did the Hellenistic Greeks conduct experiments?

They must have since many of them were scientists.

How did they test their hypotheses?

You should Google it if you're really interested. Right off the top of my head I know that many Hellenistic Greeks were great mathematicians and inventors. Heron, for example, (the Greek man--not the bird) invented steam power.

Taking a stick to defend yourself is something that anyone would do in self defense. I'm not sure how scientific sharpening a stick in preparation for another attack might be.

My example illustrates how people being resourceful is the basis for science.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm sorry... What am I obligated to "say"?

Obviously in any debate you should make a case for your position in response to arguments and evidence that disproves your position. If you claim the Nova documentary on the Dover trial misrepresents the truth, then say why.

CARM is a discussion forum. If you wish, you may sign up for a debate.

As it happens, I started re-watching it this afternoon, to point out blatant criticisms of the evolutionary position, and to post it here. So far, I'm only 1/2 hour into it. There are lots of notes to make.

But if you'd rather I not...

Go for it.

Why would I care what you believe?
You can read whatever books you want to read.
Or not.
I'm not so insecure in my beliefs that I need everyone to agree with me.
If you want to believe in evolution, then knock yourself out.
No skin off my nose.

But you suggested I read some ID books written by people like Behe. That's why I asked for a book recommendation. It appears that you were hoping that I would refuse to read any of that material so you could say that I'm not open to the truth, edit last sentence per Mod

 

[Theo1689]

Obviously in any debate you should make a case for your position in response to arguments

Then why are you pestering me, since I'm not in any "debate"?!
Why do you bullies constantly try to force people to argue with you?

and evidence that disproves your position.

You have yet to offer any "evidence that disproves [my] position".

If you claim the Nova documentary on the Dover trial misrepresents the truth, then say why.

Why should I?
If you actually think that wearing a mouse trap for a tie clip is going to be advantageous for advancing the species, then frankly there's no hope for you.

Go for it.

No thank you.
I dislike being bossed around by bullies.

But you suggested I read some ID books written by people like Behe. That's why I asked for a book recommendation. It appears that you were hoping that I would refuse to read any of that material so you could say that I'm not open to the truth, but when I proved I am open to the truth you realized your plan backfired and you beat a hasty retreat.

<sigh>
1) Go to Google.
2) Search "best books on Intelligent design"
3) Go to Amazon to check out the ratings. Keep in mind that anything about ID and evolution willi have an inordinate amount of 1-star and 5-star reviews, and evaluate accordingly.
4) Fill your cart.

 

[Gary Mac]

the real miracle is that He spoke to them, and some could hear him.

He spoke to them and they may have heard him audibly but they did not hear him spiritually. That only comes by God Himself manifest in you. These heard spiritually in an upper room, and Jesus heads Him spiritually in Matt 3:16, Just as with the 120 did.

 

[Caroljeen]

They must have since many of them were scientists.

You should Google it if you're really interested. Right off the top of my head I know that many Hellenistic Greeks were great mathematicians and inventors. Heron, for example, (the Greek man--not the bird) invented steam power.

My example illustrates how people being resourceful is the basis for science.

Lennox's claims rest on those who used the modern scientific method. Which is not attributed to the Hellenistic Greeks.

Scientific Method (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

plato.stanford.edu

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Lennox's claims rest on those who used the modern scientific method. Which is not attributed to the Hellenistic Greeks.

Scientific Method (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

plato.stanford.edu

So what's your point?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

DELETED by MOD

A "Faith" that is THREATENED by "Science", isn't Biblical "FAITH" at all. It's nothing but "Belief" (Mental assent) which has no stability in and of itself at all. "Creation Science" is BAD Science, since on both sides, it STARTS WITH A CONCLUSION, and collects supposed "evidence" to prove it.

 

[Caroljeen]

So what's your point?

What is your problem with Lennox's claim that modern science was started by Christians because they expected to find natural laws because the Creator was the lawgiver? Please leave out earlier groups like the Hellenistic Greeks and the hominids that did not that use the scientific method.