Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Could be like the books of the Apocrypha which weren't accepted, but it also was rejected by the Nazarenes as documented by Eusebius in his Ecclesiastical History of the Church, especially Paul's writings.
Jesus pierced, YHWH pierced.
- Thread starter Towerwatchman
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Towerwatchman
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What does that have to do with attributes?
Photine
Well-known member
Doesn't "filling all things" mean omnipresence
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
That he wasn't omniscient nor omnipresent.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
No, try again.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Instead of constantly posting your personal opinion, which is not a universal truth, try posting something with scriptural support.
Photine
Well-known member
Okay, what does "filling all things" mean?
The Greek is PLEROO - to make full, to complete. This isn't talking specifically about omnipresence, but about pouring out his grace and spirit upon the body of Christ. In context, Ephesians 5:6 speaks of the "Father of all, who is overall and through all and in all" and within the same context speaks of the maturing of the church body to the "stature of the fullness of Christ" in Ephesians 5:7.
It is important to note that before the day of Pentecost in ACTS 2, the infilling or baptism of the Holy Spirit was not generally available. After Christ's victory over death, he ascended to heaven and told the 120 to go to Jerusalem to wait for the promise of the Holy Spirit. The infilling of the Holy Spirit has been available today to whosoever will.
Like a mustard seed that is planted and grows huge, so the Kingdom of God grows and fills the earth.
It is all possible because of his omnipotence and omnipresence, but the filling all things in this context has to do with Christ and his authority growing. It's ultimate fulfillment comes when Jesus returns and every enemy is defeated.
Photine
Well-known member
Ephesians 4:10, NIV
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
ERV
So Christ came down, and he is the same one who went up. He went up above the highest heaven in order to fill everything with himself.
It's about omnipresence.
Jer 23:24
24Who can hide in secret places
so that I cannot see them?”
declares the Lord.
“Do not I fill heaven and earth?”
declares the Lord.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
In other words, you don't have a real reply?
Photine
Well-known member
Towerwatchman has no courage.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
I wouldn't say that. He just is stuck in a quandary.
Photine
Well-known member
I wouldn't say that. He just is stuck in a quandary.
He backed himself into a corner
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Rotfl... Jesus clearly references the Father immediately afterwards.
Jesus says so immediately afterwards. No guesswork.
Of course he did because Jesus didn't.
He doesn't have to because he's stated "our" elsewhere in the our Father in heaven prayer. Same relationship.
What matters is YHWH doesn't have flesh as proven elsewhere.
Looks like it is. I'm not limited by Strong's.
And Tanakh emphatically states he ain't. Several men like Moses, Ex 7:1, judges, Ex 21:6;22:8-9, etc., are called God and we don't confuse it with divinity.
Rotfl... and yet Jesus tells the Samaritan woman Jews know God and make-believe Jews don't.
Actually the only spirit is the Father, Neh 9:6, that makes one.
Actually the form spoken of is the same related to the house of David being Gods, Zech 12:8. Being that he was Messiah and should have reigned, he temporarily set it aside to suffer. That's the idea ?.
Sure it is. True God doesn't lose His essence. Jesus did.
I think you're application of John 5:19 is a poor application of anthropomorphisms. Not even close. The NT describes God as never seen. You can do your own homework.
Which shows the son is less than the Father, not God.
And the Father had no interest in being flesh, so...
Which the Father never did, nor can.
Actually, God doesn't have a need to keep the physical commandments, Jesus does.
Hardly continuous as the son takes many nappy times. Besides, Jesus was abandoned at the cross. That isn't continuous love.
Well, my God can't be caught in a genie bottle, bleed and die. Those are imperfections.
Jesus in the flesh was limited. There's no way around this. He ain't God.
You've admitted YHWH isn't flesh and blood. So, YHWH didn't bleed, but someone's flesh did.
Prayer to another for strength is an indication of a mortal. There are plenty of examples of Jesus doing just that. And don't forget that all knees and tongues will confess the true God. Jesus is no exception. It was sworn.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, (Lk 11:2).He doesn't have to because he's stated "our" elsewhere in the our Father in heaven prayer. Same relationship.
5 “And when you pray... But you, when you pray... 7 And when you pray... 9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven (Mt 6:5–9).
Jesus never includes Himself in the 'OUR'
Don't change the subject. Shall we place your et argument on the self?
You have a poor understanding of what you claim to know. Elohim carries several meanings including + rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power: And we translate based on the passage.
As to Greek when the noun carries the definite article it's definite. When it does not it is either definite or indefinite based on the passage. When theos carries the definite article it is equivalent to YHWH. Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28, all have theos carrying the definite article, therefore YHWH.
Why are you rolling on the floor. Are you incapable of reading. The text is clear, explicit. Luke states that the HS spoke to Isaiah.
Elohym
Plural intensive—singular meaning = Elohym governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the God of Israel, but grammatically plural elohim, takes a plural verb or adjective when used of pagan divinities. Pagan divinities when singular carry a singular verb.
However, there are places where the Elohim is used of the true God and yet is followed by a plural verb:
Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father’s house.
Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]
2 Samuel 7:23: “God [Elohim] went.”” [Literally: “They” went.]
Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]
Ecclesiastes 12:1: “Remember now your Creator.” [Literally: creators.]
God not only speaks of Himself in the plural, but many authors of Scripture also refer to God’s plurality. Out of the Hebrew, we find that nouns and adjectives describing God are in the plural form:
Psalm 149:2: “Let Israel rejoice in their Maker.” [Literally: makers.]
Joshua 24:19: “holy God” [Literally: holy Gods.]
Isaiah 54:5: “For your Maker is your husband.” [Literally: makers, husbands.]
In the OT we do have verses that speak of YHWH as a plurality.
So you interpret 'form' by taking a trip to the OT and grab onto anything you think might stick. That is not how hermeneutics is done. If that was the case any fool can interpret.
Interpret first from the immediate text.
Vs7, but emptied Himself, taking the "morphe/form/nature of a "man/bond-bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men.
“Form” is translated from “morphe” used Phil 2:6,7, and Mk 16:12. In Phil 2:6 Jesus is in “form of God”, 2:7 “form of man”, and Mk 16:12 “ a form taken after the resurrection”. If “morphe “cannot be applied ontologically in Phil 2:6 then it should not be literal in Phi2:7, and if so what was crucified, died, and resurrected in MK?
Before you run your mouth and look bad, suggest you do your homework first.Sure it is. True God doesn't lose His essence. Jesus did.
I think you're application of John 5:19 is a poor application of anthropomorphisms. Not even close. The NT describes God as never seen. You can do your own homework.
Jesus never said that no one has seen God, but no one has seen the Father.
Jn 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
Jn 5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
It shows a hierarchy of authority not a hierarchy of being.
Now you speak for him.
Based on what? I quoted from John, what John wrote as a eyewitness to what Jesus said. Who should we believe?
Jesus stated that He does not.
For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” (Mt 12:8).
If Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever; therefore immutable, unchanging {Heb 13:8}, and if Jesus upholds the universe by the word of His power {Heb 1:3}, such that in Jesus all things hold together, consist {Col. 1:17}. One has to ask, “How was Jesus able to do this when he was an embryo in Mary’s womb, a new born, a toddler learning how to walk, an adolescent growing in wisdom and stature {Luke 2:52} and finally dead for three days?
If Jesus was limited to a human body as He existed on earth, how was He able to be present everywhere in His creation, {all the universe in its totality}, directing it, being the source of its life, and giving life as He chooses if He was not God?
Jewitzu
Jesus was abandoned at the cross. That isn't continuous love.
This is how clueless you are.
I believe you read this before.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (Jn 3:16).
That is the depth of my God's love.
Prayer for strength is not an indication that the one praying is inferior to the one being prayed to. When Jesus prayed to the Father He was communicating with the Father.Prayer to another for strength is an indication of a mortal. There are plenty of examples of Jesus doing just that. And don't forget that all knees and tongues will confess the true God. Jesus is no exception. It was sworn.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
You have been addressed on all these topics. You did not post a coherent response but your personal opinion. But keep on posting defeated arguments.
For the readers sake.
Attributes of God That Jesus Has.
Omnipresent
Mt 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
Eph 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
Omniscient
Jn 2:25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.
Jn 16:30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.”
Omnipotent
Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Jn 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Preexistent
Jn 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
Jn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Eternal
Is 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Mic 5:2 “But you Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.”
Jn 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Immutable
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
More gibberish. Try writing complete and coherent sentences.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Back to being the forum troll.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
more trolling.
Photine
Well-known member
Coward.