John 5:19 - Is Jesus limited to what the Father does?

Jewjitzu said:
Right, so that's why we keep God's commandments. He said they are righteousness.


That's only required when the temple exists. We're justified when we repent and are forgiven by God. That's what Daniel and his generation did.


And yet keeping the law is evidence of the spirit of holiness.


He hasn't so I don't have a problem. If God asked you to keep the commandments as in Acts 15, would you do it?


I don't have a problem.
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Under the New Covenant your sins cannot be forgiven unless you receive God's plan of Redemption in Jesus. You cannot redeem yourself by your perceived righteousness because it is flawed. Everyone who repented after the temple was destroyed was forgiven on the basis of Jesus' future sacrifice. They could not enter heaven until Jesus came and released them from Paradise.
I keep the commandments in Acts 15, but I am not justified by doing that.
Glad you don't have a problem, but I hope you grasped the principle.
 
Jewjitzu said:
A person forgiven is clean.


Messiah isn't mentioned here.


You're not obeying God by worshipping a man, a vail of flesh, Ex 34:17, masecah.
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A person cannot be forgiven unless he receives the Messiah.
Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah as the early Rabbi's understood.
God was in Christ. We worship God through the Messiah because they are one Holy Spirit.
 
Biblican said:
Under the New Covenant your sins cannot be forgiven unless you receive God's plan of Redemption in Jesus. You cannot redeem yourself by your perceived righteousness because it is flawed. Everyone who repented after the temple was destroyed was forgiven on the basis of Jesus' future sacrifice.
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False, Jeremiah 31:31-34. And nothing is said about people being forgiven looking forward to Jesus. Why are you making more stuff up?

Biblican said:
They could not enter heaven until Jesus came and released them from Paradise.
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Unsupported.

Biblican said:
I keep the commandments in Acts 15, but I am not justified by doing that.
Glad you don't have a problem, but I hope you grasped the principle.
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Really? You keep from blood of animals, and worship on the Sabbath, etc.?
 
Biblican said:
God forgives though faith in the Messiah Jesus under the New Covenant.
It's pretty sad that the Jews reject God and His Anointed, which is Jesus.
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No messiah is necessary for God to forgive sins. Did David need a messiah in order for God to forgive him? No. All he needed was repentence.
 
Biblican said:
God was in the Man Jesus and they are one. That is why we can say Jesus is God. They are the same Spirit.
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Then you do not blieve in the follwoing verses:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man...nor a son of man.
1 Samuel 15:29 for he is not a man
Hosea 11:9 I am God and not a man
Job 9:32 For he is not a man
 
Open Heart said:
No messiah is necessary for God to forgive sins. Did David need a messiah in order for God to forgive him? No. All he needed was repentence.
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Isaiah 53 says very clearly that the Messiah would be wounded for our transgressions. That is His purpose. David was forgiven like everyone was based on the Messiah's sacrifice because Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world. In other words God was forgiving people based on Jesus' future atonement. He knew David would receive the Messiah.
 
Open Heart said:
Then you do not blieve in the follwoing verses:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man...nor a son of man.
1 Samuel 15:29 for he is not a man
Hosea 11:9 I am God and not a man
Job 9:32 For he is not a man
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God is a Spirit. Because God is a Spirit He can be in a man. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
 
Jewjitzu said:
False. All of Tanakh says otherwise.


I worship God in spirit, cut out the middleman.
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All of Tanakh prophesies of the Messiah who is the Redeemer who dies for our sins.
If you didn't have Moses, who is a similitude of the Messiah, as your "Middleman" you'd still be in the desert.
 
Jewjitzu said:
False, Jeremiah 31:31-34. And nothing is said about people being forgiven looking forward to Jesus. Why are you making more stuff up?


Unsupported.


Really? You keep from blood of animals, and worship on the Sabbath, etc.?
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You have a basic mis- understanding of the New Covenant and an inability to coordinate scripture or you'd be able to understand it.
I am a semi vegetarian and the chickens I eat are clean. I rest on the Sabbath and worship God everyday. My salvation does not depend on church attendance but on faith in Jesus' atonement.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Nope, according to Christian legends he's still around, the god of this age.


Rotfl... that's why sin still abounds.
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Satan is defeated in the life of the Christian. He cannot take us to hell when we die. We have been given authority over him in Jesus name and can cast him out like Jesus did. I've done it.
 
Jewjitzu said:
A person forgiven is clean.


Messiah isn't mentioned here.


You're not obeying God by worshipping a man, a vail of flesh, Ex 34:17, masecah.
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Jesus is not just a man, His Spirit is God's Spirit and we are worshipping God through Him.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Nope, Messiah has nothing to do with Jeremiah 31:31-34. You keep making stuff up.


Rotfl...that would be the gentiles in Psalm 2:1-2. It's very clear. ;)
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You keep demonstrating you don't understand the New Covenant.
Everyone that rejects Jesus fulfills the prophecy in Psalm2:1-2. That is very clear.
 
Open Heart said:
Do you think you can scare people into agreeing with you? No. You have to supply EVIDENCE. And the evidence is that Isaiah identifies the servant as Israel.
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Isaiah does not identify the servant as Israel. That is in your imagination and verse eight refutes you. Jesus said to the religious leadership that if they did not accept Him they would die in their sins. Warning someone about the dangers in their future is love.
A pastor I know read Isaiah 53 to a Jew without telling him where it was from. The Jew thought it was about Jesus in the New Testament. It's that obvious.
 
Open Heart said:
The church has to do with Christianity. There was no church in Solomon's day. I think perhaps you mispoke -- you meant to say Israel. None of which has anything to do with the Protestant reformation.
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The principle is the same. A church is a gathering of people of faith, A different word for Israel. When they split the root remains the same.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Sorry, but Tanakh says otherwise.


Yep, what isn't said is that there no requirements to give all you have to the poor.
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You don't understand Tanakh.
You missed the point of the illustration. The rich man was being tested. He could not give up everything for God so he was an idolater, even though he thought he kept all the commandments. That's why he needed Jesus' atonement.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Actually the remnant suffers and as a result that redeems the greater Israel.


Two different people.


So are all who obey God.
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You are teaching a fantasy not supported by the early rabbi's who thought Rashi's version was farfetched.
Two different souls, one Spirit.
Everyone who obeys God is blessed, but if they do not obey Him by refusing Jesus then they cannot enter heaven. it's your choice.
 
Biblican said:
God is a Spirit. Because God is a Spirit He can be in a man. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
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Wow. What an amazing rationalization. Sorry, but Christianity teaches that Jesus was god, not that he was possessed by God's Spirit. I don't think God dwelt in Jesus in any different way than God dwells in any human being, including you and I.
 
Biblican said:
The principle is the same. A church is a gathering of people of faith, A different word for Israel. When they split the root remains the same.
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ROFL no, sir. The word church does not mean Israel and Israel does not mean church. Israel means "to contend with God" and refers to Jacob wrestling with an angel. Church, from the greek ekklesia, simply means assembly. So the two words are completely unrelated.
 
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