Magdalena
Well-known member
Is Joseph Smith accountable for your sins?
Will Mormons answer our questions or shove them aside?
- Thread starter Janice Bower
- Start date
CrowCross
Well-known member
Do they miss out on the marriage supper of the Lamb?
brotherofJared
Well-known member
This is just my opinion, but I don't think priesthood authority has anything to do with accountability. Anyone who has responsibility to teach is accountable for what they know. Parents, regardless of priesthood authority are accountable for the sins of their children if they fail to teach them what they know to be right. Accountability is based on what we know and what our responsibility is regardless of one's authority.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That doesn't mean they are right, not does it mean that their opinion is church doctrine.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Only the exalted can be there. "Heavenly father" doesn't allow evil in his presence. But that teaching about not allowing evil in his presence is something I never heard in Sacrament Meeting or Relief Society.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Well, my sister knew very little about Mormonism and her Mormon husband knew less. And both their children became non-Mormons. Who was responsible for teaching my sister and her husband?
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Aaron32
Well-known member
No. I'm saying you took his words out of context.
Meaning goes beyond just looking at words. You have to look at the whole exchange.
So why did the young man go away sorrowing of he was guaranteed eternal life?
Aaron32
Well-known member
Elder Oaks disagrees with your opinion:
"The most important principle for all priesthood holders is the principle taught by the Book of Mormon prophet Jacob. After he and his brother Joseph were consecrated priests and teachers of the people, he declared, “And we did magnify our office unto the Lord, taking upon us the responsibility, answering the sins of the people upon our own heads if we did not teach them the word of God with all diligence” (Jacob 1:19). Brethren, our responsibilities as holders of the priesthood are serious matters. Other organizations can be satisfied with worldly standards of performance in delivering their messages and performing their other functions. But we who hold the priesthood of God have the divine power that even governs entrance into the celestial kingdom of God. We have the purpose and the responsibility the Lord defined in the revealed preface to the Doctrine and Covenants. We are to proclaim to the world: “That every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world; “That faith also might increase in the earth; “That mine everlasting covenant might be established; “That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world” (D&C 1:20–23). To fulfill this divine charge, we must be faithful in “magnifying” our priesthood callings and responsibilities (see D&C 84:33). President Harold B. Lee explained what it means to magnify the priesthood: “When one becomes a holder of the priesthood, he becomes an agent of the Lord. He should think of his calling as though he were on the Lord’s errand. That is what it means to magnify the priesthood.”
(Oaks, The Powers of the Priesthood, May 2018)
Aaron32
Well-known member
He's shares in the responsibility for those he taught. Yes. He will certainly be held accountable for any misdeeds in representing the Lord if there are any.
This doesn't give people permission to "rely on the arm of the flesh", though. It's a dual responsibility.
Aaron32
Well-known member
Can you prove that?
Theo1689
Well-known member
Of course.
Read the Bible from Gen-Rev, and you will not find anything about "priesthood authority".
That makes it unBiblical.
Aaron32
Well-known member
Supposing that were true, yhe Bible does not say anything about the earth being round. Should we not believe that either? This illustrates your line of reasoning is based on an argument of absence.
If the Bible from Gen-Rev, and you will not find anything about "priesthood authority", then what are these verses referring to:
people come unto me to inquire of God, Ex. 18:15 (1 Sam. 9:9).
consecrate them … that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office, Ex. 28:41.
appoint the Levites over the tabernacle, Num. 1:50.
him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him, Num. 16:5.
laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, Num. 27:23 (Deut. 34:9).
I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel, 1 Sam. 2:28.
Samuel was established to be a prophet, 1 Sam. 3:20.
It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense, 2 Chr. 26:18.
Haggai the prophet, as the Lord their God had sent him, Hag. 1:12.
I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom, Matt. 16:19.
he ordained twelve, Mark 3:14.
By what authority doest thou these things, Mark 11:28.
gave them power and authority over all devils, Luke 9:1.
Lord appointed other seventy, Luke 10:1.
I have chosen you, and ordained you, John 15:16. apostles … laid their hands on them, Acts 6:6 (8:18; 13:3; 1 Tim. 4:14).
testify that it is he which was ordained of God, Acts 10:42.
Paul, an apostle … by Jesus Christ, Gal. 1:1. ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed, Titus 1:5.
he that is called of God, as was Aaron, Heb. 5:4.
Theo1689
Well-known member
It is tangibly observable that the Earth is round.
it is not tangibly observable that there is "priesthood authority".
You are making an argument from silence.
You are ASSUMING that those verses refer to some "priesthood authority", but you haven't DEMONSTRATED that they do.
Theo1689
Well-known member
One of the problems is that Mormons make the same mistake as the Catholics, in falsely assuming that the Christian church has 'priests". It doesn't. The coming of Christ in the flesh did away with both priests and prophets. And if you will notice, many of your "proof-texts" are from the Old Testament, referring to Jewish priests.
But the author of Hebrews makes it very clear that the Aaronic priests of old could not put away sin, which is why Christ had to come, and be our Melchizedek priest, being sinless, and therefore being the perfect atonement for sin (Ch. 7-10).
Nothing about "priests".
Nothing about "priesthood authority".
Nothing about "priesthood authority".
Apostles are not "priests".
Nothing about "priesthood authority".
Elders are not "priests".
Nothing about "priesthood authority".
Magdalena
Well-known member
What is your responsibility after you realize that a “prophet” wasn’t actually speaking from God, and lead millions of people astray?
Aaron32
Well-known member
Fair enough. I agree with you, I assume that those verses refer to some "priesthood authority", within the context of my Mormon beliefs.
Basically, what your saying is that "priesthood authority" is a concept not found in protestant Christianity.
Which causes me to beg the question, under what authority is there "One Lord, one faith, one baptism"?
Aaron32
Well-known member
This a syntactical fallacy.
Also, remember you've interjected yourself in an argument between two mormons to make your criticism.
So, let's first define "priesthood authority" according to Mormonism:
"Priesthood authority is the authorization to represent God and act in His name. In the Church, all priesthood authority is exercised under the direction of those who hold priesthood keys." (Church Handbook, Section 3.4)
Do you believe that the source of authority from the Old Testament is a different source of authority in the New Testament?
In Mormonism, it's all the same authority. The ekklesia in Mormonism is congruent throughout time regardless of the dispensation.
Aaron32
Well-known member
Worship within the dictates of your own conscience (AoF#11)
Theo1689
Well-known member
Exactly. You're projecting your beliefs onto Scripture.
This forum isn't for discussing "protestant Christianity".