The Social Teaching of the RCC?

romishpopishorganist said:
I am confused: are we talking about Vatican II or Bergoglio? Maybe I misunderstood.

I understood you to be claiming that Vatican II is Marxist, etc. THAT was what I was responding to, THAT was what I was asking the citations for.
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It's telling that you believe a Catholic can vote for a pro-abortion politician, a very non-Catholic position.

The social teaching that I outlined in my previous post IS the social teaching of your fake Novus Ordo religion and your fake Marxist, pro-sodomite pope for the last 10 years.
 
Mysterium Fidei said:
It's telling that you believe a Catholic can vote for a pro-abortion politician, a very non-Catholic position.
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You know--you are giving me a clue as to why people can get frustrated with me sometimes--calling me "Black and white" as well as get frustrated with me for misrepresenting their positions. I thought I was a black and white thinker until I met you.

1) I would not vote for a pro-abortion politician.

2) If a Catholic votes for a pro-abortion politician---BECAUSE THEY ARE PRO-ABORTION, that is a Mortal Sin.

3) If a Catholic believes it is true that abortions tend to decrease under pro-abortion politicians, but increase under anti-abortion politicians, and votes for the pro-abortion politician becasue in doing so--they believe that will lead to LESS abortion, in such a case, I do not think one sins. Their goal is to reduce abortions--which is a good thing.

4) I do not believe the statistics that abortions go down when pro-abortion politicians are elected---I was just saying that if a Catholic truly believes the statistic--and thus votes for the pro-abortion candidate, I do not see how that is sinful.
Mysterium Fidei said:
The social teaching that I outlined in my previous post IS the social teaching of your fake Novus Ordo religion and your fake Marxist, pro-sodomite pope for the last 10 years.
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Then CITE THE RELAVENT SOURCES OF VATICAN II----IN CONTEXT.
 
romishpopishorganist said:
You know--you are giving me a clue as to why people can get frustrated with me sometimes--calling me "Black and white" as well as get frustrated with me for misrepresenting their positions. I thought I was a black and white thinker until I met you.

1) I would not vote for a pro-abortion politician.

2) If a Catholic votes for a pro-abortion politician---BECAUSE THEY ARE PRO-ABORTION, that is a Mortal Sin.

3) If a Catholic believes it is true that abortions tend to decrease under pro-abortion politicians, but increase under anti-abortion politicians, and votes for the pro-abortion politician becasue in doing so--they believe that will lead to LESS abortion, in such a case, I do not think one sins. Their goal is to reduce abortions--which is a good thing.

4) I do not believe the statistics that abortions go down when pro-abortion politicians are elected---I was just saying that if a Catholic truly believes the statistic--and thus votes for the pro-abortion candidate, I do not see how that is sinful.

Then CITE THE RELAVENT SOURCES OF VATICAN II----IN CONTEXT.
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Where in this thread was Vatican II council cited as the source of the social teaching of the Church?
 
Mysterium Fidei said:
Where in this thread was Vatican II council cited as the source of the social teaching of the Church?
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RPO got sidetracked when you referred to the establishment RCC as the "vatican 2 sect", even though you didn't mention the council he ran with it and thought you were talking about the documents of V2.
 
Mysterium Fidei said:
Where in this thread was Vatican II council cited as the source of the social teaching of the Church?
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What does Vatican II have to do with the above? I was answering a specific question about whether something might be a sin. I wasn't discussing Vatican II. Note I was offering my opinion on the issue based on the principles of Moral Theology I was taught in college. If someone has a good argument as to why my opinion is wrong, I am not saying I can't change my opinion.

Surely you realize that there is not a rule for every situation one can possibility find themselves in. Hence, we have a conscience that helps us make informed decisions based on what we know.
 
RayneBeau said:
Many poor people worry about life's essentials, but they aren't in a position to stockpile. It's just as well that they can't, because stockpiling basically is an attempt to determine one's own destiny apart from faith and trust in God. Even Christians make that mistake.
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Faith and trust in God---is no excuse for throwing the virtue of Prudence out the window.

Stockpiling---might be an attempt to determine one's destiny apart from Faith----at the same time--if you know a storm is coming, if you know there is the potential where you might fall on hard times, etc, the prudent thing to do--is stock up or otherwise plan for such times.
 
Atemi said:
War between 2 nations is worse than killing millions of innocent children?

WOW!
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There is one other difference. The primary decision maker in the case of abortions is the mothers or family or friends of the mother. Having abortion be legal would kill no one at all if those people did not decide to do it. But in the case of a war of aggression targeting innocent civilians, the primary decision maker was Putin. So if Putin were running for President of the United States intending to do the same thing by sending drones into Mexico to bomb infrastructure and civilian populations, then a Catholic need not vote for Putin just on the hope that he will end abortion (because he won't, and we would have both abortion and having attacked Mexico without cause.)
 
romishpopishorganist said:
Faith and trust in God---is no excuse for throwing the virtue of Prudence out the window.

Stockpiling---might be an attempt to determine one's destiny apart from Faith----at the same time--if you know a storm is coming, if you know there is the potential where you might fall on hard times, etc, the prudent thing to do--is stock up or otherwise plan for such times.
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Can one 'stockpile' their own body, and thereby their soul?
In this day and age, people seem to be in a panic to lengthen their lives. They have an excessive interest in vitamins, health spas, diet, and exercise. God, however, has previously determined how long we each shall live. Job says of man: "His days are determined, the number of his months is with Thee, and his limits Thou hast set so that he cannot pass."
When I exercise and eat right, my body and brain work better and I feel better all around, but I'm not going to kid myself and think that I am going to force God to let me live longer. To worry about how long you are going to live and how to "stockpile" years to your life is to distrust God. If you give Him your life and are obedient to Him, He will give you the fullness of days. You will experience life to the fullest when you live it to the glory of God. No matter how long or short, it will be wonderful.
 
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romishpopishorganist said:
Faith and trust in God---is no excuse for throwing the virtue of Prudence out the window.

Stockpiling---might be an attempt to determine one's destiny apart from Faith----at the same time--if you know a storm is coming, if you know there is the potential where you might fall on hard times, etc, the prudent thing to do--is stock up or otherwise plan for such times.
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Here is the point Jesus makes in Matt. 6:25-34.

For this reason I say to you, do not be anxious for your life, as to what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, as to what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body than clothing?

Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single cubit to his life's span? And why are you anxious about clothing?

Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory did not clothe himself like one of these. But if God so arrays the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace will He not much more do so for you, O men of little faith?

Do not be anxious then, saying "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?" or "With what shall we clothe ourselves?" For all these things the Gentiles eagerly seek; for your Heavenly Father knows that You need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not be anxious for tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of is own.
 
RayneBeau said:
Here is the point Jesus makes in Matt. 6:25-34.

For this reason I say to you, do not be anxious for your life, as to what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, as to what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body than clothing?

Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single cubit to his life's span? And why are you anxious about clothing?

Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory did not clothe himself like one of these. But if God so arrays the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace will He not much more do so for you, O men of little faith?

Do not be anxious then, saying "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?" or "With what shall we clothe ourselves?" For all these things the Gentiles eagerly seek; for your Heavenly Father knows that You need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not be anxious for tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of is own.
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Again, not an excuse to throw the virtue of Prudence out the window.
 
RayneBeau said:
Who said or made any indication about "throwing the virtue of Prudence out the window?"
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You did.

I see things this way:

If I am in a ship trying to navigate rough waters, I trust God, I believe in God--but I will steer clear of the rocks anyway and otherwise do everything I can to keep the ship steady.

In life, I will save money--so that I have a rainy day fund, in times of crisis or before a storm I will make preparations. I might stock up on food and water.

It is simply impossible not to worry. That is human. We are designed this way.
 
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