Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God

CrowCross said:
What is eternity?

Does "time" flow in eternity?
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I did not write confession so what they believe I do not know

GOD from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass.......
II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions


Westminster Assembly, The Westminster Confession of Faith: Edinburgh Edition (Philadelphia: William S. Young, 1851), 26–27.
 
fltom said:
No

Of his own free will Jonah traveled in the opposite direction

How odd would it have been for God to determine Johan to go in the wrong direction so he could be swallowed by a big fish so Jonah would go in a direction opposite what he had determined which in itself was contrary to the direction He told Johan to go
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You missed the point...God wanted Jonah to go to Nineva..Jonah said no.....but God said, really??? No????
 
fltom said:
I did not write confession so what they believe I do not know

GOD from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass.......
II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions


Westminster Assembly, The Westminster Confession of Faith: Edinburgh Edition (Philadelphia: William S. Young, 1851), 26–27.
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The object of my post is to get you to look from both directions...from the 3D + time world of ours to the multidimensional realm of God...that doesn't require time. A "place" where time is happening all at the same "moment"....past, present and future.

All of your arguments are looking from the 3D out with no look from the multidimensial realm of God looking in.
 
fltom said:
But if Calvinism were true God would have determined Johan go in the opposite direction
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Maybe....or are you saying you know how Jesus created everything?

Of course I could then say if Arminianism is correct ...the all knowing, powerful and everywhere God isn't in control.
 
CrowCross said:
The object of my post is to get you to look from both directions...from the 3D + time world of ours to the multidimensional realm of God...that doesn't require time. A "place" where time is happening all at the same "moment"....past, present and future.

All of your arguments are looking from the 3D out with no look from the multidimensial realm of God looking in.
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Extoll how you believe that effects my arguments.

Cite the argument and how you believe timelessness effects them.

For the record I do not believe God is bound by time but experiences time all at once just as you noted
 
fltom said:
No I do not attack God's omniscience just your illogical belief in the meticulous determination of all things
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Sure ya did. You claim God must fix what He originally determined to occur. As if He did not know He would have to fix it or it was not part of what was determined. Another dumb Provisionist assertion circling the drain.
 
Reformedguy said:
Sure ya did. You claim God must fix what He originally determined to occur. As if He did not know He would have to fix it or it was not part of what was determined. Another dumb Provisionist assertion circling the drain.
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Nope this is about your theology not my beliefs

It simply is a fact of your theology God had to take steps to counteract certain things he previously determined

He determined you to be a sinner and an unbeliever then he had to determine a method of removing the guilt you incurred by his determination as well as determine you to become a believer after he determined you an unbeliever
 
fltom said:
Nope this is about your theology not my beliefs

It simply is a fact of your theology God had to take steps to counteract certain things he previously determined

He determined you to be a sinner and an unbeliever then he had to determine a method of removing the guilt you incurred by his determination as well as determine you to become a believer after he determined you an unbeliever
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Not mine either, lol.

Yes He did and for a reason. He had a purpose in determining what He has determined. He is not walking around fixing His creative screw ups as He is in Provisionism.
 
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CrowCross said:
he questions....how was that which was made inside of this 3D world created?

I think we often "naturally" underestimate God and His abilities.
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Its not about God and his abilities.

It is about communicating your thought.
 
Reformedguy said:
Not mine either, lol.

Yes He did and for a reason. He had a purpose in determining what He has determined. He is not walking around fixing His creative screw ups as He is in Provisionism.
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You have not shown this is not the case

It simply is a fact of your theology God had to take steps to counteract certain things he previously determined

He determined you to be a sinner and an unbeliever then he had to determine a method of removing the guilt you incurred by his determination as well as determine you to become a believer after he determined you an unbeliever

God has to determine to counteract his own determinations in your theology
 
fltom said:
You have not shown this is not the case

It simply is a fact of your theology God had to take steps to counteract certain things he previously determined

He determined you to be a sinner and an unbeliever then he had to determine a method of removing the guilt you incurred by his determination as well as determine you to become a believer after he determined you an unbeliever

God has to determine to counteract his own determinations in your theology
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fltom said:
You have not shown this is not the case

It simply is a fact of your theology God had to take steps to counteract certain things he previously determined

He determined you to be a sinner and an unbeliever then he had to determine a method of removing the guilt you incurred by his determination as well as determine you to become a believer after he determined you an unbeliever

God has to determine to counteract his own determinations in your theology
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Nope. Because it's all determined. It all has a purpose. God dies not make mistakes. In Provisionism He does of course. The fall was not determined, according to you, so the cross is a correction.
 
Reformedguy said:
Nope. Because it's all determined. It all has a purpose. God dies not make mistakes. In Provisionism He does of course. The fall was not determined, according to you, so the cross is a correction.
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You have failed to show god is not taking steps to counteract what he determined

fail
 
fltom said:
You have failed to show god is not taking steps to counteract what he determined

fail
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I don't have to. It's all determined. My God makes no mistakes. It's all part of the plan. Yours however has made some goofs for sure and must use the cross to fix them. Unfortunately the lost must suffer for His mistakes.
 
Reformedguy said:
I don't have to. It's all determined. My God makes no mistakes. It's all part of the plan. Yours however has made some goofs for sure and must use the cross to fix them. Unfortunately the lost must suffer for His mistakes.
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And still you fail to disprove the idea that God takes steps to counteract his own determination
 
fltom said:
And still you fail to disprove the idea that God takes steps to counteract his own determination
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Don't have to. Your point us stupid if all things are determined.

Tom's God however obviously screwed up in creation. It was flawed. Man fell. Opps. Now I must fix it or at least try. He obviously should not have put the tree of good and evil in the garden. Unfortunately now millions suffer because of the Provisionist gods short sightedness.
 
Reformedguy said:
Don't have to. Your point us stupid if all things are determined.

Tom's God however obviously screwed up in creation. It was flawed. Man fell. Opps. Now I must fix it or at least try. He obviously should not have put the tree of good and evil in the garden. Unfortunately now millions suffer because of the Provisionist gods short sightedness.
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Sorry no it is response which is stupid
 
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