Mormon, whose child are you?

[Janice Bower]

The covenant to become children of Christ is not passive, nor can it ever be. In the process of becoming, we embrace the Messiah through complete obedience and develop deep and abiding faith in Him. We repent as we approach the Father daily in prayer. Children of Christ read and ponder the scriptures. We proclaim His gospel with courage, standing “as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that [we] may be in, even until death” (Mosiah 18:9).

The same verse shares the blessings of the covenant: “that [we] may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that [we] may have eternal life” (Mosiah 18:9) Indeed, God has made a mighty promise to those who would become children of Christ.

Becoming Children of Christ

Becoming Children of Christ

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

John 1:12 refers to being adopted by Christ. According to Mormonism, all people were already children of Elohim.

 

[Janice Bower]

Christ's adopted children, per Mormonism, are not outside in some other kingdom.

The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. . . where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple" (Doctrines of Salvation 2:40)

Jesus Christ is the Father of those who abide in His gospel.

That by obedience to the Gospel men may become sons of God, both as sons of Jesus Christ, and, through Him, as sons of His Father, is set forth in many revelations given in the current dispensation. …

Manual: Teachings of Joseph F. Smith

 

[Janice Bower]

If Mormons don't become a child of Christ, they don't go to the CK.

Everyone is already a child of God and a heavenly mother. But John 1:12 speaks of an adoption and I'm guessing it didn't make sense to Mormons.

 

[Richard7]

The covenant to become children of Christ is not passive, nor can it ever be. In the process of becoming, we embrace the Messiah through complete obedience and develop deep and abiding faith in Him. We repent as we approach the Father daily in prayer. Children of Christ read and ponder the scriptures. We proclaim His gospel with courage, standing “as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that [we] may be in, even until death” (Mosiah 18:9).

The same verse shares the blessings of the covenant: “that [we] may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that [we] may have eternal life” (Mosiah 18:9) Indeed, God has made a mighty promise to those who would become children of Christ.

Becoming Children of Christ

Becoming Children of Christ

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

John 1:12 refers to being adopted by Christ. According to Mormonism, all people were already children of Elohim.

Than you agree, the lost sheep are members of his church... thx...

 

[Richard7]

Christ's adopted children, per Mormonism, are not outside in some other kingdom.

The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. . . where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple" (Doctrines of Salvation 2:40)

Jesus Christ is the Father of those who abide in His gospel.

That by obedience to the Gospel men may become sons of God, both as sons of Jesus Christ, and, through Him, as sons of His Father, is set forth in many revelations given in the current dispensation. …

Manual: Teachings of Joseph F. Smith

Romans 8:17-18 TPT​

And since we are his true children, we qualify to share all his treasures, for indeed, we are heirs of God himself. And since we are joined to Christ, we also inherit all that he is and all that he has. We will experience being co-glorified with him provided that we accept his sufferings as our own. I am convinced that any suffering we endure is less than nothing compared to the magnitude of glory that is about to be unveiled within us.

 

[Bonnie]

Yes, God's TRUE CHILDREN are those whom He has adopted THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ. For we are, as Paul wrote in Ephesians 2, "by nature, CHILDREN OF WRATH" not "By nature, children of God" as Mormonism teaches--that all of us are the spirit offspring of HD by some unnamed HM.

John 1 says that when we believe in the Name of the Son of God, we then have the right to BECOME children of God. BECOME. IF we already ARE the spirit children of God, then why would we need the right to BECOME His children? Do we need the right to become our parents' children?

Do we, Richard?

 

[brotherofJared]

The covenant to become children of Christ is not passive, nor can it ever be. In the process of becoming, we embrace the Messiah through complete obedience and develop deep and abiding faith in Him. We repent as we approach the Father daily in prayer. Children of Christ read and ponder the scriptures. We proclaim His gospel with courage, standing “as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that [we] may be in, even until death” (Mosiah 18:9).

The same verse shares the blessings of the covenant: “that [we] may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that [we] may have eternal life” (Mosiah 18:9) Indeed, God has made a mighty promise to those who would become children of Christ.

John 1:12 refers to being adopted by Christ. According to Mormonism, all people were already children of Elohim.

So where is the beef?

 

[Richard7]

Yes, God's TRUE CHILDREN are those whom He has adopted THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ. For we are, as Paul wrote in Ephesians 2, "by nature, CHILDREN OF WRATH" not "By nature, children of God" as Mormonism teaches--that all of us are the spirit offspring of HD by some unnamed HM.

John 1 says that when we believe in the Name of the Son of God, we then have the right to BECOME children of God. BECOME. IF we already ARE the spirit children of God, then why would we need the right to BECOME His children? Do we need the right to become our parents' children?

Do we, Richard?

So what do you inherit? His glory, how can that be? what glory? you have no idea... we do....

 

[brotherofJared]

Christ's adopted children, per Mormonism, are not outside in some other kingdom.

That makes sense..I'm not sure what your point is..why would the adopted children be in some other kingdom?

Jesus Christ is the Father of those who abide in His gospel.

Ok..so what?

 

[brotherofJared]

If Mormons don't become a child of Christ, they don't go to the CK.

False. I'm not sure where you think you got that idea but it's not ours. None of the passage you quote support your claim.when used in context. Exaltation can only be obtained through the temple. Exaltation does not equal celestial kingdom.

Everyone is already a child of God

But not if Jesus Christ who is a son of God just like the rest of us including Satan.

But John 1:12 speaks of an adoption and I'm guessing it didn't make sense to Mormons.

I'm guessing our critics don't understand it. It does speak of the adoption which can't be to God the Father because we're already the Father's children. Logically, someone other than God the Father must be adopting us.

 

[Theo1689]

Yes, God's TRUE CHILDREN are those whom He has adopted THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ. For we are, as Paul wrote in Ephesians 2, "by nature, CHILDREN OF WRATH" not "By nature, children of God" as Mormonism teaches--that all of us are the spirit offspring of HD by some unnamed HM.

This is simply a great example of how Mormons read their false theology into Scripture, through their "Mormon-coloured" glasses.

When you read Scripture for what it ACTUALLY says, rather than what YOU want it to say (or what Joseph Smith wanted it to say), it is crystal clear.

Mankind are creations/creatures of God:

Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image,​

Gen. 5:1 ... When God created man, ...​

Gen. 6:7 ... “I will blot out man whom I have created ...​

Deut. 4:32 ... the day that God created man on the earth,​

Isa. 45:12 I made the earth and created man on it;​

Man is described as "the potter's clay", or "vessels" (either of honour of dishonour):

Isa. 64:8 But now, O LORD, you are our Father;​

we are the clay, and you are our potter;​

we are all the work of your hand.​

​

Rom. 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?​

Then we have all the "adoption" passages (Rom. 8:15, Gal. 4:5, Eph. 1:5) which teach that we "become" sons of God, instead of already been "inherently" sons of God.

Further, Scriptiure is clear that not all are "sons of God", as Mormons mistakenly teach:

Rom. 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.​

​

Phil. 2:15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,​

​

1John 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.​

It's really not rocket science.
It's right there in black and white.
Either we believe it, or we don't.

 

[Theo1689]

I'm guessing our critics don't understand it.

No, we understand it FAR better than you do.

It does speak of the adoption which can't be to God the Father because we're already the Father's children.

And you are wrong again.
Our adoption IS to God the Father.
Nowhere does the Bible teach, "we're alerady the Father's children".

Rom. 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.​

We are adopted by God the Father, and join our brother Christ as a "fellow heir" (with Christ, of God our Father), and join Christ in sayiing, "Abba, Father!" to God the Father.

1John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.​

We are called sons of God" (ie. adopted) because of the FATHER's love. And not all are sons of God in this way, since, "the world knoweth us not".

The "world", which is in contrast to "the sons of God" are evil, and do not know God. So if "the sons of God" are those allegedly adopted by Christ, then the evil ones from the "world" must be the sons of God the Father (according to Mormonism).

So the sons of Christ are good,
and the sons of the Father are evil?
Is that what Mormons want us to believe?

 

[Richard7]

This is simply a great example of how Mormons read their false theology into Scripture, through their "Mormon-coloured" glasses.

When you read Scripture for what it ACTUALLY says, rather than what YOU want it to say (or what Joseph Smith wanted it to say), it is crystal clear.

Mankind are creations/creatures of God:

Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image,​

Gen. 5:1 ... When God created man, ...​

Gen. 6:7 ... “I will blot out man whom I have created ...​

Deut. 4:32 ... the day that God created man on the earth,​

Isa. 45:12 I made the earth and created man on it;​

Man is described as "the potter's clay", or "vessels" (either of honour of dishonour):

Isa. 64:8 But now, O LORD, you are our Father;​

we are the clay, and you are our potter;​

we are all the work of your hand.​

​

Rom. 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?​

Then we have all the "adoption" passages (Rom. 8:15, Gal. 4:5, Eph. 1:5) which teach that we "become" sons of God, instead of already been "inherently" sons of God.

Further, Scriptiure is clear that not all are "sons of God", as Mormons mistakenly teach:

Rom. 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.​

​

Phil. 2:15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,​

​

1John 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.​

It's really not rocket science.
It's right there in black and white.
Either we believe it, or we don't.

We teach children of God, Theo.... so your'e mistaken as usual.... chuckle

Latter-day Saints see all people as children of God in a full and complete sense; they consider every person divine in origin, nature, and potential. Each has an eternal core and is “a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.” Each possesses seeds of divinity and must choose whether to live in harmony or tension with that divinity. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people may “progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny.” Just as a child can develop the attributes of his or her parents over time, the divine nature that humans inherit can be developed to become like their Heavenly Father’s.

The desire to nurture the divinity in His children is one of God’s attributes that most inspires, motivates, and humbles members of the Church. God’s loving parentage and guidance can help each willing, obedient child of God receive of His fulness and of His glory. This knowledge transforms the way Latter-day Saints see their fellow human beings. The teaching that men and women have the potential to be exalted to a state of godliness clearly expands beyond what is understood by most contemporary Christian churches and expresses for the Latter-day Saints a yearning rooted in the Bible to live as God lives, to love as He loves, and to prepare for all that our loving Father in Heaven wishes for His children.

Becoming Like God

Gospel topic information and links to additional resources

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Sons of God:

The scriptures use these terms in two ways. In one sense, we are all literal spirit children of our Heavenly Father. In another sense, God’s sons and daughters are those who have been born again through the Atonement of Christ.

Chalk up another loss, Theo..... we never taught all are sone of God....

 

[brotherofJared]

This is simply a great example of how Mormons read their false theology into Scripture, through their "Mormon-coloured" glasses.

Either that or it's an example of how our critics read their truth into the scriptures.

Once we know the truth, everything falls into place. You guys constantly have to manipulate or discard scriptures that don't fit your conclusions. The New Testament, for example teaches there are three who are one, but you all twist it to say there is one who is three.

The scriptures clearly show that we are all the offspring of God. They teach us to call Him Father. There's a reason for that. We don't need to be adopted to the Father of spirits since we are ALL his offspring - starting with Jesus.

 

[Theo1689]

Either that or it's an example of how our critics read their truth into the scriptures.

We are not Mormons.
Why are you trying to derail discussion to make it about us?

Once we know the truth, everything falls into place.

Yep.
And it's not "Mormonism".

You guys constantly have to manipulate or discard scriptures that don't fit your conclusions.

We are not Mormons.
Why are you trying to derail discussion to make it about us?

The New Testament, for example teaches there are three who are one, but you all twist it to say there is one who is three.

We are not Mormons.
Why are you trying to derail discussion to make it about us?

I'll tell you why.
It's because you know Mormonism is bankrupt and indefensible, and that's why you have to derail discussion and move it AWAY from Mormonism, so you don't have to defend it (because you can't).

The scriptures clearly show that we are all the offspring of God.

"Offspring" in its general sense simply means, "creator".
We "came from" God, since He CREATED us:

Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image,​

Gen. 5:1 ... When God created man, ...​

Gen. 6:7 ... “I will blot out man whom I have created ...​

Deut. 4:32 ... the day that God created man on the earth,​

Isa. 45:12 I made the earth and created man on it;​

From Webster's 1828 dictionary:

OFF'SPRING, noun [off and spring.

1. A child or children; a descendant or descendants, however remote from the stock. Acts 17:28. Revelation 22:16.​

2. Propagation; generation.​

3. Production of any kind.​

They teach us to call Him Father.

Well, this needs to be unpacked, since you have LOADED it with unwarranted assumptions. Frist of all, who is "us"? Certainly the Bible teaches the "elect" (to/for whom the NT was written) to refer to God as oru "Father", since He (the Father) ADOPTED us into the family of God.

If you want to extend the label to all of humanity, that's fine as well, since "Father" can (and does) ALSO mean, "creator":

Isa. 64:8 But now, O LORD, you are our Father;​

we are the clay, and you are our potter;​

we are all the work of your hand.​

​

Mal. 2:10 Have we not all one father? ​

hath not one God created us? ​

​

George Washington is regarded as the "Father" (ie. Creator) of our country. I assure you that He didn't "beget" every citizen in the country.​

Again, from Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

F'ATHER, noun [Latin pater. The primary sense is obvious.]

1. He who begets a child; in Latin genitor or generator.​

2. The first ancestor; the progenitor of a race or family.​

3. The appellation of an old man, and a term of respect.​

4. The grandfather or more remote ancestor. ​

5. One who feeds and supports or exercises paternal care​

6. He who creates, invents, makes or composes any thing; the author, former or contriver; a founder, director or instructor. God as creator is the father of all men. John 8:16. ​

There's a reason for that.

Of course there's a reason for that.
God is the CREATOR of all men.

We don't need to be adopted to the Father of spirits since we are ALL his offspring

No, there is no conflct.
That we are His "offspring" simply means that God created us.
He then adopts us into the family of God.

 

[Janice Bower]

We teach children of God, Theo.... so your'e mistaken as usual.... chuckle

Latter-day Saints see all people as children of God in a full and complete sense; they consider every person divine in origin, nature, and potential. Each has an eternal core and is “a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.” Each possesses seeds of divinity and must choose whether to live in harmony or tension with that divinity. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people may “progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny.” Just as a child can develop the attributes of his or her parents over time, the divine nature that humans inherit can be developed to become like their Heavenly Father’s.

The desire to nurture the divinity in His children is one of God’s attributes that most inspires, motivates, and humbles members of the Church. God’s loving parentage and guidance can help each willing, obedient child of God receive of His fulness and of His glory. This knowledge transforms the way Latter-day Saints see their fellow human beings. The teaching that men and women have the potential to be exalted to a state of godliness clearly expands beyond what is understood by most contemporary Christian churches and expresses for the Latter-day Saints a yearning rooted in the Bible to live as God lives, to love as He loves, and to prepare for all that our loving Father in Heaven wishes for His children.

Becoming Like God

Gospel topic information and links to additional resources

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Sons of God:

The scriptures use these terms in two ways. In one sense, we are all literal spirit children of our Heavenly Father. In another sense, God’s sons and daughters are those who have been born again through the Atonement of Christ.

Chalk up another loss, Theo..... we never taught all are sone of God....

No, sons and daughters are children of their parents. Theo is not wrong.

God loves His children. He is not the Father of children of wrath or Satan or demons. He HATES the workers of iniquity. The reason John 1:12 means adoption as sons and daughters to Christ in Mormonism is because the Mormon jesus adopted them. That is Mormon teaching.

 

[Richard7]

No, sons and daughters are children of their parents. Theo is not wrong.

God loves His children. He is not the Father of children of wrath or Satan or demons. He HATES the workers of iniquity. The reason John 1:12 means adoption as sons and daughters to Christ in Mormonism is because the Mormon jesus adopted them. That is Mormon teaching.

Now you changed the goal post and inserted adoption???? Why, can you explain your added insertion?

Galation 4

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God asent forth his bSon, cmade of a dwoman, made under the law,

5 To aredeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the badoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a aservant, but a bson; and if a son, then an cheir of God through Christ.

8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye adid bservice unto them which by nature are no cgods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in abondage?

Ephesians

5 Having apredestinated us unto the badoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have aredemption through his blood, the bforgiveness of sins, according to the criches of his dgrace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all awisdom and bprudence;

9 Having made known unto us the amystery of his bwill, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the adispensation of the fulness of times he might bgather together in one call things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Notice in the fullness of time....our time right now

 

[Theo1689]

Galation 4

Not sure what a "Galation" is.

Did you mean to say, "Galatians" (as in, residence of "Galatia")?

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God asent forth his bSon, cmade of a dwoman, made under the law,

Weren't you told by one of the mods last October to ensure that you deleted all links (except two to the official LDS website), to comply with CARM rules?

Yet your post contains TWENTY-SIX links in it.

Is that an intentional flipping your finger to the mods?

 

[Richard7]

Not sure what a "Galation" is.

Did you mean to say, "Galatians" (as in, residence of "Galatia")?



Weren't you told by one of the mods last October to ensure that you deleted all links (except two to the official LDS website), to comply with CARM rules?

Yet your post contains TWENTY-SIX links in it.

Is that an intentional flipping your finger to the mods?

Report me , I enjoy the time off... chuckle.

 

[Bonnie]

Not sure what a "Galation" is.

Did you mean to say, "Galatians" (as in, residence of "Galatia")?



Weren't you told by one of the mods last October to ensure that you deleted all links (except two to the official LDS website), to comply with CARM rules?

Yet your post contains TWENTY-SIX links in it.

Is that an intentional flipping your finger to the mods?

I asked 4Him about this link business, some months ago--she told me that as long as the links all go to the same place, they are allowed. As near as I could tell, the links in Richard's post all go to the same page on the LDS website, from Galatians 4. She also told me we can have as many links to Bible verses as we like in a post.

Just an FYI.