tbeachhead
Well-known member
We've seen that this is a false claim...You're own posts have belied it. In rejecting the historic body of Christ, like Joe Smith and Charles Taze Russel before you, you've rejected the commandment of Christ Himself.
Tongues shall cease. - 1 Cor 13:8
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TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
But I know all about the pentecostalist history, and it is a very short one LOL..what were you saying about ‘refreshing new take’? Hahaha..you’re too funny. Also, stop talking about 1 Corinthians 14..you’ve clearly not a clue what that passage means at all. It was about not abusing spiritual gifts and using them for God’s work and having an orderly assembly..meanwhile you pentecostalists chase false signs and wonders and use them to grandstand. Some even roll on the ground and bark like dogs. Ironic.
Yeah I caught that passage you posted, it applies exactly to you actually. You aren’t even man enough to admit when you’re wrong you only double down on the lies. You’re also a total hypocrite, feeling you’re called by your god to correct me.
You clearly don’t get it dude. I’ve said it before..my main problem with pentecostalists isn’t their juju and doing jibberish. It’s their pride, arrogance, self Importance, inability to admit to any wrong and many other undesirable traits. Doing jibberish is only a symptom of more serious issues of that religion. Also, the only thing counterfeit is the pentecostalist religion. It’s basically a counterfeit version of wicca or New Age. You’re the counterfeiters.
I am not interested in watching you do jibberish on youtube. Are you really that lifted up in pride that you make videos of yourself doing jibberish to put on YouTube? LOL.
And there you go again bragging about all your ‘achievements’ LOL..you pentecostalists are all way too filled with pride. Here’s a verse just for you mister pentecostalist globe trotter..
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.”
Matthew 23:15
What is the biblical gospel to eternal life and what is your conversion experience/testimony?
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
Strawman. Projection. Also, ironically, the pentecostalist religion is an even newer cult than those other cults you list there.
That isn't proof. Did Jesus heal everyone? Nope. So still waiting on your proof and not your faithless experience
Oh and what Scripture have I twisted. If we going to discuss Scripture and not your opinion I am good. Let's go.
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
All the proof I need is that literally every single pentecostalist I have encountered is a liar, scripture twister, proud, unrepentant, and lacks a biblical gospel to eternal life. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
That is not proof. That is opinions. Again, proof.
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
More like, what scripture HAVEN’T you twisted? It would do no good to discuss it any further, you are only interested in distorting the Word to align with pentecostalist juju and hocus pocus. What is the biblical gospel to eternal life and what is your conversion experience? How did it change you? You and the other pentecostalist keep dodging that question. I wonder why...
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
It isn’t opinions, anyone who is biblically literate can see you and your buddy’s scripture twists.
You are so lifted up in pride and delusions of grandeur you’re on an Internet chatroom claiming to be able to raise the dead.
tbeachhead
Well-known member
You might want to wait for the answer before you start gloating...and begin as I said in a previous post, by taking out the chapter markers that were added centuries later. Luke didn't put a break between chapter 1 and chapter 2.
The number gathered is stated in chapter 1: "15In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (a gathering of about a hundred and twenty) and said, 16'Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit foretold through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus...'"
Chapter 2 says, "1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place..." If you have a problem with the number given in chapter one being the antecedent for "they were all" I don't. Grammatically, Luke makes it very clear. There is no alternative choice. These all gathered in one place, and the spirit came into the "...house where they were all seated."
Logistically impossible matters. I'm reading the text so that I don't post the inanities you keep posting that are not even reasonable conjecture:
Three thousand are about to get saved...thus the square contains more than three thousand...Have you ever tried to organize a crowd that big, spontaneously...so they can each hear a single speaker who miraculously speaks their native language? Now, those who are speaking in tongues number anywhere between 11 to 120, depending on whether or not you accept the antecedent I pointed out above...and not one has a clue what language he's speaking?
Who is tasked with getting the Parthian speaker to the crowd of Parthians that were separated out from the Medes, the Romans and the Cappadocians?
...and in the shortest possible period of time, so short, in fact, that Luke's narrative doesn't even mention the logistical nightmare?
Have you ever been to Jerusalem? I have. Ever tried to move through a crowded square in the Old City? I have.
Pretty bad guess...
...and typical of every guess your Trinitarioclast, anti-pentacostalist, anti-charismaticist religion has made on this thread.
Actually...this is clear...you do not care what scripture says. You are content with your invention.
Still opinions. The only one with pride is you who uses themselves as the measuring stick to what is or is not true biblically. So again, without your prideful judgmental opinions, give me proof.
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
You just aren’t man enough to admit when you are wrong. Wow. All you can do is double down on the lies, arrogance, and scripture twisting. The 120 in acts 1 is the disciples of Christ, the multitude in acts 2 were not yet disciples of Christ..2 different groups of people. It is also obvious there were multiple speakers who spoke to the multitude, and they were speaking in the languages of various nations..they weren’t doing jibberish. So to try and shrug off you being caught in lies you go off on a tangent rather than repent. It is sad you actually ‘teach’ people while being that biblically illiterate and so bent on confirming scripture to pentecostalist hocus pocus.
Will you also just quit with the projection already? You’re the one who doesn’t care about the truth of God’s word. All you care about is twisting it to align with doing jibberish and other false signs and lying wonders.
And you STILL dodge the question I asked..what is your conversion experience? What is the biblical gospel to eternal life? Very telling that you won’t answer that, and it is very concerning that the likes of you usurp spiritual authority over others.
And I also find it hilarious that a pentecostalist of all people, one who’s entire religion revolves around false signs and lying wonders, is talking about ‘logistically impossible’ LOL! The same cultists who cry “sToP p-p-pUtTiNg mUh gOd iN uH bOxXx” LOL!
tbeachhead
Well-known member
"Strawman?" You don't know what that means, do you? I have pointed out correctly that your behavior is analogous to that of Joe Smith and Charlie Russel before you, who turned away from the church and became accusers instead of brethren, which is tantamount to rebellion against the commandment of Christ.I look forward to defending myself before Him...as you will. One of us will have to explain why we rejected His nature and His gifts because we believed our own reasoning and followed experience instead of scripture.
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
I use the Bible as the measuring stick. Not the pentecostalist religion like you use for your measuring stick. And mikey..you’re just fine with judgmental opinions, so long as they agree with your feelings.
So let me get this straight..a megalomaniac who thinks he resurrects the dead is calling me prideful..LOL!!! You can’t make this up!!! Too funny!
Still no biblical gospel or conversion experience from you as I asked, very telling indeed..
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
There ya go, keep building up that strawman LOL, whatever you do keep ducking what I asked you about the biblical gospel to eternal life and your conversion experience.
I look forward to defending myself before Him...as you will. One of us will have to explain why we rejected His nature and His gifts because we believed our own reasoning and followed experience instead of scripture.
Sorry but doing jibberish isn’t a gift from God. It is either faked, or an unclean spirit like with the wiccans, and other pagans. Mormons do jibberish too btw.
You can’t even provide a biblical gospel and your conversion experience, you only want to link YouTube videos of you recording yourself doing jibberish, build strawmen, and twist scripture to align with pentecostalist juju and hocus pocus. Tells me all I need to know about you.
tbeachhead
Well-known member
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I'm a teacher, and have been since 1978. No student will learn from a teacher who does not admit his own mistakes. It seems all you can do is reject the help I'm offering.
Of course they are.
They are those on whom the Holy Spirit fell in Acts 2...as they were all gathered together in one place. The Holy Spirit first fell on the disciples who were gathered in Jerusalem in anticipation of the Promise and in obedience to Christ's command from Luke 24:49"And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you. But remain in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” Luke even reviews the promise in chapter 1 of Acts: 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
They said good bye to Jesus forty days after the resurrection, and remained in Jerusalem for Pentecost, ten days later, where they...these disciples...were clothed with power from on high, as Jesus had prophesied, according to the Promise of the Father.
This will be another difficult passage for you, because you do not believe there is power as they received on Pentecost, and in your own religious impotence, you push an invented form of godliness according to whatever standards you enforce, yet denying the power thereof, as Paul foretold to Timothy.
Do you need to repeat what I say so that you can claim you said it?
Of course the multitude in Acts two were not disciples...They are the HEARERS of the tongues, from all over the world, each one having his own native language. The disciples on whom power came from on high were the SPEAKERS...speaking in tongues.
Your chucklesome version will have the disciples speaking languages they don't know and cannot identify organizing groups of hearers whose origins are not immediately evident in order for the hearer to hear in his own language which is being spoken by a total stranger who just happened to find this group.
Leaving your pejorative "gibberish" aside...because, as Paul correctly points out, all foreign language is gibberish to those who have not learned it...
The fact is clear: You had a hundred speakers at most and thousands of people in a crowd from all over the world who, according to Luke, heard the speakers, every one, in their own language. You had tongues and interpretation on day one.
Only you cannot see this. Eyes get blinded. It's very biblical.
I will let the Lord judge between you and me.
You do not know me and have absolutely no clue what I care about or whom.
When did you ever ask me this question? This is the first time you've been personal in any correspondence we' ve had.
Please clarify...because of your prattle, I'm wary of a trap. Are you asking for my personal testimony? If you are, say so in the next post and I'll be glad to share it...I'm not ashamed of the God who has pursued me over decades. As to the biblical Gospel unto eternal life: Believe God. Obey His commandments. Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved.
That's only because you cannot understand what you read...There is much in your posts I find hilarious as well. These days' entertainment surpasses that of most...and largely due to your efforts.
I'm grateful for your posts.
No sir. You are, by your own word creating options by you experience that trumps the Bible.
Absolutely I have or rather the Lord has through me. I gave name and place but like I have said, no amount of evidence will suffice those who refuse to believe
TrvmpleVnSnvkes
Active member
I asked you and the other pentecostalist here multiple times..and you STILL refuse to answer.
You are no one to offer ‘help’. You’re not going to get me to distort scripture the way you do to align with pentecostalist juju and hocus pocus. That isn’t help at all. You’ve already proven yourself scripturally illiterate with how you utterly butchered that passage from Acts 1 and Acts 2..you need to help your own self by repenting before you try and usurp control over others.
You are utterly delusional. You said that the 120 disciples in Acts 1 referred to the multitude of Jews in Acts 2, LOL it is two different groups, you didn’t say that, you said the 120 referenced in acts 1 was the Jews who heard their own languages being spoken in acts
2. It is documented here for all to see. You really need help dude. Not to be trying to ‘help’ anyone else.
Then you go off on another tangent again, to try and bury the lies and deception you’ve been caught in. You are the exact reason why I avoid the denominational religious system and religious buildings. Rather than just admit you were wrong you only double down, go off on tangents, and try to switch things around.
This is sad..asking someone who claims to be Christian for a biblical gospel and their conversion experience you say is a ‘trap’? Wow. Amazing.
Your ‘gospel‘ is also very generic, not biblical. Where’s the faith in the death/shed blood for remission of sin/burial/resurrection? The repentance (Luke 13:3, 1 Corinthians 7:10, Luke 18:13-14, Psalms 34:18)? The rebirth (John 3:3)? What commandments must I obey? Are you referring to all 600 of His commandments listed in the OT Law? That is impossible for anyone to obey them all. Also, it doesn’t really seem at all like ‘everyone’ who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. What exactly do you mean by ‘call on’? Also, what about these verses:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.“
Matthew 7:21-23
Hey, sounds like he is even referring to people so similar to the pentecostalists there, right? Interesting..
So, ‘54 years of experience’ eh? And you don’t even have a biblical gospel message. Just some generic 1-2-3 believe after me. I think you’d be far far better off focusing on the biblical gospel to eternal life instead of fanaticism over doing jibberish and other pentecostalist juju and hocus pocus.
tbeachhead
Well-known member
So you do not know what a strawman is...just another useless label.
Here's the nutshell version of my conversion experience: A man came to my suburb on the West Side of Cleveland, Ohio backed by Young Life, a teen outreach that flourished during the height of the Jesus Movement in the sixties and early seventies. He is to this day one of the most gifted leaders and evangelists I have ever known. He opened scripture, and focused on Christ and Him crucified, like Paul in Corinth, and he taught us to read the Bible and trust that what the Bible teaches is truth. I began to read the Bible in 1970...reading through the New Testament over and over...and finally beginning into the Old Testament because the cross references led me there. I got my first interlinear and parallel Bible my senior year in high school. College was a disaster spiritually, and an adventure for life. Paris, France was my campus my freshman year...
During my high school years, Dennis Bennett, the father of the Charismatic movement in the Episcopalian Church came to my little parish. (We more politely call ourselves Charismatic without the needless derision born of evident insecurities, because it's actually English and a more accurate description...even for the critics who deride us without the childishness.) He opened up the book of Acts, 1 Corinthians 12-14 and finally, the promise of Mark 16. Then he invited any who wanted to be baptized with the baptism of Jesus to come up front.
I was a high school Episcopalian. There was no way I'd go up front. I went home and closed myself in my closet and asked Jesus to baptize me. I began speaking a language i did not understand. I thought I was faking it. (Note: I was in my closet with my door closed. I was not showing off.) I was a budding Episcopalian...I trained acolytes. I left off speaking in tongues.
And something very strange happened to me: The Bible became large letter edition every time I read it. Whole passages that I had read frequently became pregnant with meaning...and began to engrave themselves within me. In short, when the Spirit baptized me, He began to teach me. That, to me, is the quintessential evidence of the Baptism of Jesus: Those who are filled with the Spirit are taught by the Same Spirit. We are not driven to criticize everyone else in the Whole church but ourselves from the day John disappeared...We are commanded to bless and to edify. The Holy Spirit convicts, we expose His word in season and out of season, here a little and there a little.
So...after college, I started attending a Charismatic Lutheran church whose pastor was an expository preacher. For three years, I gained from his teaching. At this time, I became familiar with the late Pat Robertson and the 700 club. Pat Robertson was the very best expository teacher I've ever had. These were the days where it wasn't enough to hear a message...We bough the tapes and listened again all week long...matching doctrine to scripture, line upon line and precept upon precept. Robertson founded Regent University. That's where I went to seminary...working toward a Master's in Biblical Studies. I got called away to teach in a Fundamentalist (anti-charismatic) Christian boarding school who knew my background but were so desperate for a French teacher they hired me anyway. I spent two years there, working very well with faculty and the student body, and then the mission field opened up.
I joined Operation Mobilization, a trans-denominational missions organization built to buttress the efforts of the churches throughout the world. That is where I met my Swedish wife. She went off to Cyprus. I lived and worked in Paris, France and we helped to build churches that reached the lost. The second year, I went to Morocco but got expelled because I was caught in possession of subversive literature with the intent to convert a Muslim. I was expelled, and OM sent me to Israel, where I lived and worked out of Nazareth among the Arab population of Galilee and the West Bank.
At the end of that year, my wife and I drove up to Sweden to wed, and came back to the US to meet my failing mother before she passed away. Thirty-seven years and eight children later, I've retired from the state school where I taught French for 35 years. I've pastored churches, youth groups, teams and small groups. I've done for the church you despise everything I was asked to edify, exhort and comfort...as the Spirit directed me.
I still speak in tongues...You will never hear me, because you despise the gift...that danger is your own.
But you're not bloviating on the basis of experience or biblical doctrine...You seem personally repulsed by the notion.
You might consider getting over it. My friends at the Christian school would agree with you...but they have learned not to eschew the fellowship Christ commanded us to enhance. The two years among those who do not believe in the gifts and who sadly have been taught that they are no longer being given were very good years for all of us.
You sound a little desperate. Did you notice the distinct lack of hocus and ju?
Did this help?