Why Jews will never accept Jesus

Biblican said:
I have dealt with it sufficiently. You do not want to understand the significance of the once a year sacrifice the priest made in the Holy of Holies. That sacrifice is for the atonement of the soul. God wrote Leviticus 17:11. You need to read it several times.
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And Jesus' blood never made it to the altar according to the commandments in Lev 17:11.

Too bad.
 
Biblican said:
First of all, I don't expect to gain any ground with you, you are operating under the spirit of the antichrist. I am here because you are giving me an opportunity to explain things to the other people who are reading this who can think.
Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies concerning the atonement. No one else has or will do the same. Leviticus 17:11, makes atonement for the soul. It's not my idea of atonement, it's God's. Leviticus 17:11 specifically mentions the soul. Unless sins are removed from the soul, the soul cannot have eternal life.
One of the Rabbis in the middle ages encouraged his followers to read the book of Revelation as he recognized that it was given by the Holy Spirit. The temple in heaven is mentioned in that book. The Apostle John was the only prophet of Jesus' disciples and he is like Daniel. His prophecy basically further details Daniel's prophecy of the last days. You can accept this or reject it, I don't care.
Ezekiel 18 does not prove me wrong at all. I already explained what it means. You can accept it or reject it, that's your business. You prefer fig leaves to God's provision for your sin.
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Sorry, this is getting old. The spirit of the antichrist, which isn't a Tanakh teaching, is garbage. But since you mention it, that spirit is associated with lawlessness which you and Paul definitely fit.
 
Biblican said:
In the writings of the Rabbis and the prophets there is only one Messiah that is to be the deliverer. In modern times, because they could not understand that the Messiah can die and still rue and reign they invented two messiahs, Ben Joseph who would be killed and Ben David who would rule. Of course there is no basis for this when compared with the prophets.
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The Rabbi's say how they are many Messiahs. Keep studying.
 
Jewjitzu said:
But you're confused about it.


Then you've misrepresented in the past saying you've studied these things.


Doesn't say what you're saying.


I don't care about Revelations.


Isaiah 42 doesn't show a dialog. Why make that up?


No misunderstanding on my part. Consistency shows the spirit of holiness is shown through obedience to the commandments.
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You think I'm confused? Ha. You've proved over and over you don't understand anything. You can't even explain what the gospel is all about. I've studied the Bible and only starting to study the Midrash in any depth. You don't take into consideration timing, the historical context and the other things that you have to understand in order to interpret scripture properly. All you know how to do is repeat what your Rabbi's have told you to believe.
Your right, it's not exactly a dialogue, I used the wrong word. It does show that the Messiah was with God prior to His incarnation in order to receive the Spirit from Him.
Obeying God is the result of loving Him, but only Jesus can make us truly holy, according to the gospel which you don't understand.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Sorry, this is getting old. The spirit of the antichrist, which isn't a Tanakh teaching, is garbage. But since you mention it, that spirit is associated with lawlessness which you and Paul definitely fit.
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Anti- Christ means anti messiah which you are because you reject Jesus as the Messiah.
Paul said to read the Tanakh so we may be furnished in righteousness. He did not teach against the moral code.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Nope. You either fulfill the law, or not according to Leviticus 17:11. And your idea doesn't.
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It;s not my idea. Levitcus is about the atonement that God will accept for a person to enter heaven. You can't get into heaven full of sin it has to be removed and the only means that God has provided for that is through blood atonement.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Two anointed. One comes after the 1st 7 weeks. The other after 62 weeks.

Do you understand where the 70 weeks comes from?
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We will have to agree to disagree. There is only one Messiah that the Jews believed to be their Redeemer, not two.
 
Jewjitzu said:
The Rabbi's say how they are many Messiahs. Keep studying.
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No, the Rabbis believed that there is only one Messiah that is the deliverer of Israel. They may apply the word to others, but they would not be THE Messiah who is to redeem Israel.
 
Biblican said:
You think I'm confused? Ha. You've proved over and over you don't understand anything. You can't even explain what the gospel is all about. I've studied the Bible and only starting to study the Midrash in any depth. You don't take into consideration timing, the historical context and the other things that you have to understand in order to interpret scripture properly. All you know how to do is repeat what your Rabbi's have told you to believe.
Your right, it's not exactly a dialogue, I used the wrong word. It does show that the Messiah was with God prior to His incarnation in order to receive the Spirit from Him.
Obeying God is the result of loving Him, but only Jesus can make us truly holy, according to the gospel which you don't understand.
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I've given you scripture. You're the one referring to Rabbinical writings. How ironic. Rotfl...
 
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Biblican said:
That's what you choose to believe. Jesus is the only one who fulfilled Isaiah 53.
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And an asham doesn't cover all sins. And Isaiah 53 wouldn't cover Gentiles anyway.

I think Jesus said he came for the lost house of Israel... rotfl. You're not in the house, bro.
 
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Biblican said:
No, the Rabbis believed that there is only one Messiah that is the deliverer of Israel. They may apply the word to others, but they would not be THE Messiah who is to redeem Israel.
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Actually, the grammar in the Aramaic/Hebrew and taamei hamiqra support two.

The Hebrew in Tanakh shows over 39 usages of anointed. David, Saul, Priests, Israel, etc., are called anointed.
 
Biblican said:
In the writings of the Rabbis and the prophets there is only one Messiah that is to be the deliverer. In modern times, because they could not understand that the Messiah can die and still rue and reign they invented two messiahs, Ben Joseph who would be killed and Ben David who would rule. Of course there is no basis for this when compared with the prophets.
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Deliverer? The job of the Messiah is to rule during the messianic age. You weary me with your constant harping on this ben Joseph stuff. You have been answered too many times for description. I don't know where Jewjitzu finds his patience.

You know, its not that we disagree that's a problem for me. I'm fine with disagreeing agreeably. It's that you can't even see our POV, you can't even see what we are saying. How can you disagree with what you don't even understand? Sad.
 
Biblican said:
I have dealt with it sufficiently. You do not want to understand the significance of the once a year sacrifice the priest made in the Holy of Holies. That sacrifice is for the atonement of the soul. God wrote Leviticus 17:11. You need to read it several times.
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No, you really haven't dealt with it. The texts are clear -- non-blood offerings made atonement.
 
Biblican said:
Anti- Christ means anti messiah which you are because you reject Jesus as the Messiah.
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Please, let's not do the personal attacks. Not only are they poor form, but they are not allowed on CARM. This is a forum which encourages respect between interlocutors. Things like calling each other satanic, anti-christ, evil, etc., simply cross the line into personal attack.
 
Jewjitzu said:
And that's what repentance does, Ezekiel 18.
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Even more pointedly in Isaiah 1

Isaiah 1
11 “What are your many sacrifices to Me?”
Says the LORD.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fattened cattle;
And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs, or goats.
16“Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight.
Stop doing evil,
17Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor,
Obtain justice for the orphan,
Plead for the widow’s case.
18“Come now, and let us debate your case,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They shall become as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be like wool.
19“If you are willing and obedient,
You will eat the best of the land;
20But if you refuse and rebel,
You will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
 
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Open Heart said:
Deliverer? The job of the Messiah is to rule during the messianic age. You weary me with your constant harping on this ben Joseph stuff. You have been answered too many times for description. I don't know where Jewjitzu finds his patience.

You know, its not that we disagree that's a problem for me. I'm fine with disagreeing agreeably. It's that you can't even see our POV, you can't even see what we are saying. How can you disagree with what you don't even understand? Sad.
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The concept of the Messiah that originates from the Old Testament and the Rabbinical writings shows a Messiah that is to be a deliverer, a Redeemer first and then he will reign. The concept has been altered in modern times and the Messiah's role as a Redeemer and deliverer has been de-emphasized.
I don't see myself constantly harping on the Ben Joseph/David issue, I think I only mentioned it a couple of times. The first time I mentioned it you said I was lying. This shows again you don't understand what the Rabbi's believe, or how they try and circumvent the truth of the scriptures by inventing their own explanations. Their concept of the Messiah in the earliest Rabbinical writing and the scriptures always points to one individual Messiah Redeemer.
I understand your point of view perfectly well and I don't agree with it. It's not based on what the scriptures actually teach. For me the scriptures have to be first and understood properly in their context.
 
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