Is Sola Scriptura (being limited to only the Bible alone for everything) Biblical, logical, and practical?

Forgive me, but that seems to be like saying, "If Jesus contradicts the Father, which source is true"? It wouldn't happen.

Since Jesus said, "Don't commit fornication", for example, you won't see an ECF saying "It's fine to commit fornication." If he did, he wouldn't be an ECF! ;)
are you saying these have divine origins?

  • Didache - ca. 80 AD
  • Ignatius of Antioch, "Epistles" - 110 AD
  • Hippolytus' "Apostolic Tradition" - 235 AD
  • Eusebius, "Church History" - 315 AD
  • John Chrysostom - 390s-400s AD
  • Etc.
 
That Sola Scriptura, when implemented, is not a useful tool - no matter if Scripture is at the top of a "hierarchy of authorities" or just consulted alone.

a tool for what???
Sola Scriptura is not a tool!!
What do mean when Sola Scriptura is implemented?

that's like saying when "God is the Supreme Sovereign" is implemented.

you just can't let go of the strawman that Sola Scriptura is a tool for interpretation
 
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a tool for what???
Sola Scriptura is not a tool!!

Fine then, "method" instead of "tool"
Sola scriptura is not a useful method for arriving at the true understanding of the Bible.

I'll answer your other post later but I have to run now.
 
Fine then, "method" instead of "tool"
Sola scriptura is not a useful method for arriving at the true understanding of the Bible.

I'll answer your other post later but I have to run now.
you just can't let go of the strawman that Sola Scriptura is a method for arriving at the true understanding of the Bible.
It is NOT
It is a doctrine stating that the Scriptures are a higher authority than the Church
 
It is a doctrine stating that the Scriptures are a higher authority than the Church

Yes, Thess! I've understood that. I've understood that all along. But when people *believe* in this doctrine, then they will get their beliefs about Christianity from their views of Scripture and whatever subordinate authorities they think agree with Scripture - exactly as Luther and his cohort did. And they all disagree.
 
Yes, Thess! I've understood that. I've understood that all along. But when people *believe* in this doctrine, then they will get their beliefs about Christianity from their views of Scripture and whatever subordinate authorities they think agree with Scripture - exactly as Luther and his cohort did. And they all disagree

the question is :
After the Apostolic age ended:
do we a have a single, dual , or even a triple source of infallible revelations?

that is what Sola Scriptura addresses : not interpretation
Sola Scriptura holds that the Scriptures are above traditions and the magisterium

Sola Scriptura -wiki
The Catholic Church officially regards tradition and scripture as equal, as interpreted by the Roman magisterium and describes this as "one common source ... with two distinct modes of transmission" while some Protestant authors call it "a dual source of revelation".
 
the question is :
After the Apostolic age ended:
do we a have a single, dual , or even a triple source of infallible revelations?

I think I'd have to answer "one" - the Church. (Which wrote, compiled, and gave you the Bible.)
 
How many times in Presbyterian Church did we recite the Apostles' Creed, as if it was an important document to say what our faith was? If you say that a document rightly evaluates our faith, and then you use that document in addition to the Bible to judge faith questions, then you are using it as an "authority", meaning a document that you respect or give credence to, in order to judge other teachings.

Actually, you are attacking the doctrine of "solo Scriptura", not "sola Scriptura". We hold other authorities and resources, such as creeds, confessions, and theological books written by Christians, by they are all SUBSERVIENT to Scripture, which is the ultimate authority.

Creeds like the Apostles' Creed are not "additional" authorities, we hold to them because they are summaries of what SCRIPTURE teaches. And Scripture is our ULTIMATE authority, and only infallible authority.

Sola Scriptura is a term used by Luther, the Lutheran Church, and their Formula of Concord as I quoted explicitly to teach that only the "Bible alone" is the only rule and authority on religious "doctrines" / teachings,

Actually, Luther didn't invent the concept of "sola Scriptura".

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and,at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.” 
- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:1:1 (AD 180) 

“But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves.”
- Clement of Alexandria (AD 180) 

“But there is no evidence of this, because Scripture says nothing.” [...] “The Scripture says nothing of this, although it is not in other instances silent” [...] “I do not admit what you advance of your own apart from Scripture.” 
- Tertullian, The Flesh of Christ, Ch. 6, Ch. 7 (AD 200) 

“There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of who me we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source. For just as a man, if he wishes to be skilled in the wisdom of this world, will find himself unable to get at it in any other way than by mastering the dogmas of philosophers, so all of us who wish to practice piety will be unable to learn its practice from any other quarter than the oracles of God. Whatever things, then, the Holy Scriptures declare, at these let us look; and whatsoever things they teach, these let us learn.”
- Hippolytus, Against Noetus, Ch. 9 (AD 200) 

“Let nothing be innovated, says he, nothing maintained, except what has been handed down. Whence is that tradition? Whether does it descend from the authority of the Lord and of the Gospel, or does it come from the commands and the epistles of the apostles? For that those things which are written must be done.”
- Cyprian, Epistle 73:2 (AD 250) 

“... the sacred and inspired Scriptures are sufficient to declare the truth.”
- Athanasius, Against the Heathen, 1:1:3 (AD 325) 

“Now one might write at great length concerning these things, if one desired to go rate details respecting them; for the impiety and perverseness of heresies will appear to be manifold and various, and the craft of the deceivers to be very terrible. But since Holy Scripture is of all things most sufficient for us, therefore recommending to those who desire to know more of these matters, read the Divine word, [...]” 
- Athanasius, To the Bishops of Egypt, Ch. 1, 4 (AD 325) 

“For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures, nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifacts of speech. Even to me, who tell thee these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.”
-Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 4,17 (AD 360) 

“I do not consider it fair that the custom which obtains among them should be regarded as a law and rule of orthodoxy. If custom is to be taken in proof of what is right, then it is certainly competent for me to put forward on my side the custom which obtains here. If they reject this, we are clearly not bound to follow them. Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favour of that side will be cast the vote of truth.” 
- Basil, Letter 189, 3 (AD 370) 

“But while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings.”
- Gregory of Nyssa, On the Soul and Resurrection (AD 375) 

"Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast." 
-- John Chrysostom, Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church, p. 118, vol. 96 TFOTC. 

“Men of the world give many further rules about the way to speak, which I think we may pass over; as, for instance, the way jesting should be conducted. For though at times jests may be proper and pleasant, yet they are unsuited to the clerical life. For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?
-- Ambrose, On the Duties of the Clergy, 1.23.102 (397) 

“For how is it not absurd that in respect to money, indeed, we do not trust to others, but refer this to figures and calculation; but in calculating upon facts we are lightly drawn aside by the notions of others; and that too, though we possess an exact balance, and square and rule for all things, the declaration of the divine laws? Wherefore I exhort and entreat you all, disregard what this man and that man thinks about these things, and inquire from the Scriptures all these things;
- John Chrysostom, Homily 13 (AD 405) 

“Whereas, therefore, in every question, which relates to life and conduct, not only teaching, but exhortation also is necessary; in order that by teaching we may know what is to be done, and by exhortation may be incited not to think it irksome to do what we already know is to be done; what more can I teach you, than we we read in the Apostle? For holy Scripture setteth a rule to our teaching, that we dare not ‘be wise more than it behoveth to be wise’; but be wise, as himself saith, ‘unto soberness, according as unto each God hath allotted the measure of faith.’ “ 
- Augustine, On the Good of Widowhood (AD 425)
 
Actually, you are attacking the doctrine of "solo Scriptura", not "sola Scriptura". We hold other authorities and resources, such as creeds, confessions, and theological books written by Christians, by they are all SUBSERVIENT to Scripture, which is the ultimate authority.

Creeds like the Apostles' Creed are not "additional" authorities, we hold to them because they are summaries of what SCRIPTURE teaches. And Scripture is our ULTIMATE authority, and only infallible authority.



Actually, Luther didn't invent the concept of "sola Scriptura".

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and,at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.” 
- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:1:1 (AD 180) 

“But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves.”
- Clement of Alexandria (AD 180) 

“But there is no evidence of this, because Scripture says nothing.” [...] “The Scripture says nothing of this, although it is not in other instances silent” [...] “I do not admit what you advance of your own apart from Scripture.” 
- Tertullian, The Flesh of Christ, Ch. 6, Ch. 7 (AD 200) 

“There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of who me we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source. For just as a man, if he wishes to be skilled in the wisdom of this world, will find himself unable to get at it in any other way than by mastering the dogmas of philosophers, so all of us who wish to practice piety will be unable to learn its practice from any other quarter than the oracles of God. Whatever things, then, the Holy Scriptures declare, at these let us look; and whatsoever things they teach, these let us learn.”
- Hippolytus, Against Noetus, Ch. 9 (AD 200) 

“Let nothing be innovated, says he, nothing maintained, except what has been handed down. Whence is that tradition? Whether does it descend from the authority of the Lord and of the Gospel, or does it come from the commands and the epistles of the apostles? For that those things which are written must be done.”
- Cyprian, Epistle 73:2 (AD 250) 

“... the sacred and inspired Scriptures are sufficient to declare the truth.”
- Athanasius, Against the Heathen, 1:1:3 (AD 325) 

“Now one might write at great length concerning these things, if one desired to go rate details respecting them; for the impiety and perverseness of heresies will appear to be manifold and various, and the craft of the deceivers to be very terrible. But since Holy Scripture is of all things most sufficient for us, therefore recommending to those who desire to know more of these matters, read the Divine word, [...]” 
- Athanasius, To the Bishops of Egypt, Ch. 1, 4 (AD 325) 

“For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures, nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifacts of speech. Even to me, who tell thee these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.”
-Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 4,17 (AD 360) 

“I do not consider it fair that the custom which obtains among them should be regarded as a law and rule of orthodoxy. If custom is to be taken in proof of what is right, then it is certainly competent for me to put forward on my side the custom which obtains here. If they reject this, we are clearly not bound to follow them. Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favour of that side will be cast the vote of truth.” 
- Basil, Letter 189, 3 (AD 370) 

“But while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings.”
- Gregory of Nyssa, On the Soul and Resurrection (AD 375) 

"Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast." 
-- John Chrysostom, Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church, p. 118, vol. 96 TFOTC. 

“Men of the world give many further rules about the way to speak, which I think we may pass over; as, for instance, the way jesting should be conducted. For though at times jests may be proper and pleasant, yet they are unsuited to the clerical life. For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?
-- Ambrose, On the Duties of the Clergy, 1.23.102 (397) 

“For how is it not absurd that in respect to money, indeed, we do not trust to others, but refer this to figures and calculation; but in calculating upon facts we are lightly drawn aside by the notions of others; and that too, though we possess an exact balance, and square and rule for all things, the declaration of the divine laws? Wherefore I exhort and entreat you all, disregard what this man and that man thinks about these things, and inquire from the Scriptures all these things;
- John Chrysostom, Homily 13 (AD 405) 

“Whereas, therefore, in every question, which relates to life and conduct, not only teaching, but exhortation also is necessary; in order that by teaching we may know what is to be done, and by exhortation may be incited not to think it irksome to do what we already know is to be done; what more can I teach you, than we we read in the Apostle? For holy Scripture setteth a rule to our teaching, that we dare not ‘be wise more than it behoveth to be wise’; but be wise, as himself saith, ‘unto soberness, according as unto each God hath allotted the measure of faith.’ “ 
- Augustine, On the Good of Widowhood (AD 425)
As a Calvinist Baptist, respect the 1689 Confession, as well as other books such as systematic theologies, but only inspired authority are the scriptures!
 
Because unless the Church signed off on it, it can't be called Scripture.


I'm sorry : what was your point?
I could hear you over the Scriptures

Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Matthew 26:54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”
Matthew 26:56 But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled
Mark 12:10 Have you not read this Scripture: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone;
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
Mark 14:49 Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. But let the Scriptures be fulfilled.”
Luke 4:21 And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”
Luke 22:35 Scripture Must Be Fulfilled in Jesus And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.”
Luke 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.”
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:32 They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?”
Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
John 2:22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
John 7:42 Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the offspring of David, and comes from Bethlehem, the village where David was?”
John 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
John 13:18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’
John 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 19:24 Do they said to one another, “Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be.” This was to fulfill the Scripture which says, “They divided my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.” So the soldiers did these things,
John 19:28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.”
John 19:36 For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken.”
John 19:37 And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.”
John 20:9 for as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that he must rise from the dead.
 
So a writing is fully and completely scripture when it is canonized.
FALSE

the correct answer : a writing is Scripture or not the moment it is written.
No committee,council, or conference can change the origin of a writing.

You reject Sola Scriptura becauses you diminish Scripture
 
Alright, then how do you know what is or isn't Scripture?
irrelevant to Sola Scriptura
Sola Scriptura is true of what Scripture is (its characteristics and attributes)
not because of what is Scripture (a list)

A writing breathed out by God is more authoritative that the Church.
It doesn't matter Scriptures consist of 100 words or 100 volumes

All Scripture is God Breathed:
Therefore
All Scripture is more authoritative than the Church

I do not know what God said from His Throne today:
But I do know that what ever was said it is more authoritative that what any Church says.

Why can't you accept that?
 
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how do you know what is or isn't Scripture?
irrelevant to Sola Scriptura

This is directly relevant to Sola Scriptura. We can't talk about "Sola Scriptura" if we don't know even know what is or isn't "Scriptura". Please answer the question.

Sola Scriptura is true of what Scripture is (its characteristics and attributes)
not because of what is Scripture (a list)

A writing breathed out by God is more authoritative that the Church.

The problem is: without an authoritative body to definitively say what is or isn't Bible Canon, I don't see how you can establish one. People have only disagreed - this is the objective history of Christianity. The Bible was finally canonized by 397 AD and stayed in that form for over a thousand years until the Protestants arose. Then Protestants believed that the canon was wrong and took out several books (Maccabees, Judith, etc.).

Martin Luther even stopped numbering James, Jude, Hebrews and Revelations with the rest of the New Testament.

So who identified the books of "Scripture" correctly?

Was it the Council in the 300s? - If yes, then why did the Protestants change it?

Do you believe the Protestants got it right? If yes, why should we give them more consideration than the first council? How can we be sure they're not wrong too, and a later group will actually get it right? What guarantee is there?
 
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This is directly relevant to Sola Scriptura. We can't talk about "Sola Scriptura" if we don't know even know what is or isn't "Scriptura". Please answer the question.



The problem is: without an authoritative body to definitively say what is or isn't Bible Canon, I don't see how you can establish one. People have only disagreed - this is the objective history of Christianity. The Bible was finally canonized by 397 AD and stayed in that form for over a thousand years until the Protestants arose. Then Protestants believed that the canon was wrong and took out several books (Maccabees, Judith, etc.).

Martin Luther even stopped numbering James, Jude, Hebrews and Revelations with the rest of the New Testament.

So who identified the books of "Scripture" correctly?

Was it the Council in the 300s? - If yes, then why did the Protestants change it?

Do you believe the Protestants got it right? If yes, why should they have more authority than the first council? How can we be sure they're not wrong too, and a later group will actually get it right? What guarantee is there?
you are wrong:
I do not know what God said from His Throne today:
But I do know that what ever was said it is more authoritative that what any Church says.

Why can't you accept that?
think about what you claiming
Do you think the man gets to grant authority to God's words?
 
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